Obama And Romney Are Wrong: Outsourcing Is Actually America At Its Best

Forbes ^ | 07/28/2012 | Harry Binswanger

[SeekAndFind]

Mitt Romney and Barack Obama are currently fighting over who is the more patriotic. Obama slams Romney for having outsourced jobs to China during his Bain Capital days. Romney punches back by labeling Obama “Outsourcer in Chief.” The latest is that both John Boehner and Harry Reid are voicing outrage over America’s made-in-China Olympic uniforms. “Burn them!” thunders Reid.

Republicans and Democrats strangely agree that outsourcing is unpatriotic, and that the moral and patriotic thing to do is to “Hire American” and “Buy American.”

Well, no. Not in a thousand years. The fear of outsourcing and international trade is economic nonsense and moral blindness. More than that: this anti-profit attitude is un-American.

Despite the ongoing Europeanization of America, America still symbolizes the land of freedom, entrepreneurship, profit-making, above all, individualism.

But collectivism is the premise of “Hire/Buy American”: we are to view ourselves and others not as individuals, but as units of a nation. Businesses are urged to pay more in labor costs, simply to hire workers who are American; consumers are urged to forgo Walmart’s low prices, pay more, simply because the pricier goods were made by “our guys.” This is not rational patriotism, it is not Americanism, it's primitive tribalism.

American individualism means making buying decisions on the basis of economic merit, giving no regard to the nationality or race of the seller. Let’s not hide behind patriotic-sounding slogans. Let’s name things straight for a change: giving preference to American sellers over foreign sellers is the same mindless injustice as giving preference to sellers who are white over those who are black.

Economic nationalism is as morally outrageous as racism. Buying on the basis of nationality or race is the same collectivist evil: judging men and their products by the group from which they come, not by merit.

[1rudeboy]

Don't forget, when Monica was "servicing" Bill Clinton, he received a phonecall from that sugar dude, and he was like, "hey, I have to take this call."

So who would possibly wonder whether political considerations would come into play when our politicians, in their infinite wisdom, determine the future of the Republic?

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: "China - Kinder, Gentler" nation

I cannot find the quote on line but I recall Dan Rather saying those words just minutes before the Commies' tanks rolled over hundreds in Tiananmen Square -- adding hundreds more to the 60 million said to have been killed by Chinese Communists.

If it wasn't Rather who uttered those words it was any one of hundreds of "journalists" swooning over the Commies.

RE: "Faking the stupid round eye since 1972©"

1972? Try since before Mao took control in the late 1940s.. I remember when they were just "agrarian reformers" -- at least that's what America's best and brightest folks said.

[central_va]

There is a protectionist, on this very thread, who recommended a 100% tariff on all imports into the US.

I would only favor that large of a duty on imports if it would replace the income tax. What I mean a repeal the 16th amendment, because we would end up with both.

[BfloGuy]

This is just one set of industries that China has stolen from the U.S.A .

Dude, China didn't steal them; we gave them away.

End of discussion. You obviously are not interested in learning anything. I won't waste any more time on you.

[BfloGuy]

I saw some stupid video about China beating us at manufacturing, I think it was called "Ha ha America".

Heh. Sounds like the name of a Chinese take-out.

[BfloGuy]

The Chicoms are taking our manufacturing away from us.

Stop giving away our manufacturing.

You were right on the second statement. The Chicoms aren't taking it away -- we're giving it to them.

But, Cringing, it isn't because of free trade -- it's because of [and you know all this] taxes, regulations, and inflation. Those are what makes the U.S. uncompetitive.

Why don't you rail against those as much as you complain about the right of American citizens to trade with whom they choose?

[1rudeboy]

Here is on from you, again, from the FR sidebar:

The federal government has asserted claims for damages to groundwater in a natural resource damage case in New Mexico involving Chevron/Molycorp. Free Republic.

Never mind Molycorp, it only mines rare earth minerals. Higher taxes should fix everything, especially when China controls the world's supply of rare earths, now.

[1rudeboy]

And the larger question is: why does it take a “free traitor” to point out the above? Is every protectionist just sitting on his or her fat ass waiting for the government to protect them?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Never mind Molycorp, it only mines rare earth minerals.

If we double the price of oil, our massively damaged economy won't need rare earth metals.

[1rudeboy]

Hey, maybe if we make imported rare earths more expensive, then our own rare earth mines will open, despite the fact that our government won't allow them to operate. Or maybe, somehow, some political pressure will be generated to open them at some undetermined time in the future.
/protectionist

[rurgan]

The U.S. has not created a single net job in the last decade.As soon as Clinton signed the China "free trade" deal then America and the greatest job creation engine ever got annihilated . We the U.S.A. cannot even make our own consumer electronics, clothes , and thousands of other consumer industries but instead NEED to have China and other countries make that for us. But some on here ridicule me and call me an idiot because I say the China economy is more productive than the U.S. economy , a U.S. "economy" that even with borrowing tens of trillions of $ has created not 1 job in the 21st century. That U.S. economy is a joke that will collapse under exploding , massive debt , 16 $ trillion federal debt. But many here tell me that the U.S. economy is so productive ( the most productive in the world) . China makes most of the worlds electronics, most of the world's steel , and most of countless other products .The U.S. economy is creating unimaginable debt, can't even produce our own consumer electronics nor create a single job. But they tell me the U.S. economy is supposed to be the world's most productive (3 times more so than China they say).

When we in American turn over products we see “Made in China”. Likewise 9 billion people in the world "See made in China", in Europe , in South America, in China etc. 9 billion people see “Made in China” when they turn over most of their products. And you all post all these stats in overvalued U.S. dollars that say that the U.S. produces more.And you ridicule me because I say those stats are bogus. Well I and 99% of people I talked to know that China will own the U.S. soon.

Name what consumer electronics are made in the U.S.A. go ahead name them if the U.S. produces so much.

No consumer electronics that I know of are made in the USA

China manufactures almost all consumer electronics that Americans use . but it's not just for the U.S..there are 9 billion people in the world, 1.4 billion people in China that also use consumer electronics. china manufactures most of these. China makes most of the consumer electronics that 9 billion people use ( and also most of the consumer products). Just that proves that China's economy is many times greater , bigger , better than the U.S.’s . Do you have any idea how many cell phones, consumer electronics etc 9 billion people are using? An entity that produces most of that rules the world and produces the most in the world. And that's not the only thing . Clothes,household items , practically everything consumers use is being made in China.what we have more of is debt. U.S. has only 300 million people.the same thing we see in the U.S.A when we turn over products “Made in China” 9 billion people in Europe , South America, China etc. see “Made in China”. And you all post all these stats in overvalued U.S. dollars that say that the U.S. produces more.

U.S. manufacturing jobs declined 36% in the last decade. so only 11 million U.S. workers work in manufacturing ( and I think they including mining, power plant workers, and in some cases some construction in that stat) . that 11 million is a minuscule stat when compared to the world population of 9 billion. U.S. manufacturing is not even a blip on the world stage even though with overvalued U.S. dollars and including mining it does show up . In real terms it doesn't . Economic stats are bs. the government says GDP is made up 2/3 of it is consumer spending and most of the rest is government spending. and you agree. I say the real economy is manufacturing which is what china does and has concentrated on . you say I'm an idiot and that China are idiots for concentrating on manufacturing. Government spending and government workers produce nothing . the 3 trillion $ annual government budget produces nothing but hardship for U.S. businesses.All I'm saying is that we have to fight fire with Fire and do to China what china has done to us the U.S.A. Just 2 things china has done is devalue their currency so their workers have the pay advantage, also they force any U.s. company building in China to partner with a China company so that the china company can steal all the technology and then move the U.S. company out. But china has done many more things like this to steal our technology ,industries and markets. China has made America and Americans poorer and china has put many U.S. workers out of work and made many homeless. http://www.techforecasters.com/archives/china-electronics-manufacturing-growth-or-decline/

By the amount that Chin has undervalued their currency so that a China worker makes 50 cents per hour so their production is really 50 times what it says in dollars , so China manufacturing really 50 times greater than U.S. ( ridicule me all you want , China is the threat not me as I want to help the U.S.)

[rurgan]

The U.S. has not created a single net job in the last decade.As soon as Clinton signed the China "free trade" deal then America and the greatest job creation engine ever got annihilated . We the U.S.A. cannot even make our own consumer electronics, clothes , and thousands of other consumer industries but instead NEED to have China and other countries make that for us. But some on here ridicule me and call me an idiot because I say the China economy is more productive than the U.S. economy , a U.S. "economy" that even with borrowing tens of trillions of $ has created not 1 job in the 21st century. That U.S. economy is a joke that will collapse under exploding , massive debt , 16 $ trillion federal debt. But many here tell me that the U.S. economy is so productive ( the most productive in the world) . China makes most of the worlds electronics, most of the world's steel , and most of countless other products .The U.S. economy is creating unimaginable debt, can't even produce our own consumer electronics nor create a single job. But they tell me the U.S. economy is supposed to be the world's most productive (3 times more so than China they say).

When we in American turn over products we see “Made in China”. Likewise 9 billion people in the world "See made in China", in Europe , in South America, in China etc. 9 billion people see “Made in China” when they turn over most of their products. And you all post all these stats in overvalued U.S. dollars that say that the U.S. produces more.And you ridicule me because I say those stats are bogus. Well I and 99% of people I talked to know that China will own the U.S. soon.

Name what consumer electronics are made in the U.S.A. go ahead name them if the U.S. produces so much.

No consumer electronics that I know of are made in the USA

China manufactures almost all consumer electronics that Americans use . but it's not just for the U.S..there are 9 billion people in the world, 1.4 billion people in China that also use consumer electronics. china manufactures most of these. China makes most of the consumer electronics that 9 billion people use ( and also most of the consumer products). Just that proves that China's economy is many times greater , bigger , better than the U.S.’s . Do you have any idea how many cell phones, consumer electronics etc 9 billion people are using? An entity that produces most of that rules the world and produces the most in the world. And that's not the only thing . Clothes,household items , practically everything consumers use is being made in China.what we have more of is debt. U.S. has only 300 million people.the same thing we see in the U.S.A when we turn over products “Made in China” 9 billion people in Europe , South America, China etc. see “Made in China”. And you all post all these stats in overvalued U.S. dollars that say that the U.S. produces more.

U.S. manufacturing jobs declined 36% in the last decade. so only 11 million U.S. workers work in manufacturing ( and I think they including mining, power plant workers, and in some cases some construction in that stat) . that 11 million is a minuscule stat when compared to the world population of 9 billion. U.S. manufacturing is not even a blip on the world stage even though with overvalued U.S. dollars and including mining it does show up . In real terms it doesn't . Economic stats are bs. the government says GDP is made up 2/3 of it is consumer spending and most of the rest is government spending. and you agree. I say the real economy is manufacturing which is what china does and has concentrated on . you say I'm an idiot and that China are idiots for concentrating on manufacturing. Government spending and government workers produce nothing . the 3 trillion $ annual government budget produces nothing but hardship for U.S. businesses.All I'm saying is that we have to fight fire with Fire and do to China what china has done to us the U.S.A. Just 2 things china has done is devalue their currency so their workers have the pay advantage, also they force any U.s. company building in China to partner with a China company so that the china company can steal all the technology and then move the U.S. company out. But china has done many more things like this to steal our technology ,industries and markets. China has made America and Americans poorer and china has put many U.S. workers out of work and made many homeless. http://www.techforecasters.com/archives/china-electronics-manufacturing-growth-or-decline/

By the amount that Chin has undervalued their currency so that a China worker makes 50 cents per hour so their production is really 50 times what it says in dollars , so China manufacturing really 50 times greater than U.S. ( ridicule me all you want , China is the threat not me as I want to help the U.S., what's your solution , keep allowing china to do this to us or what? Yeah I 'm for reducing taxes and regulations on businesses but also doing to China what china have done to U.S. )

[Toddsterpatriot]

As soon as Clinton signed the China "free trade" deal then America and the greatest job creation engine ever got annihilated

We don't have a free trade agreement with China.

But some on here ridicule me and call me an idiot

That's only because you are an idiot.

because I say the China economy is more productive than the U.S. economy

You say lots of things that aren't true.

U.S. manufacturing jobs declined 36% in the last decade. so only 11 million U.S. workers work in manufacturing

It's true, we make more stuff with fewer employees. That's the definition of increased productivity. You said it yourself, China has 100 million manufacturing employees, yet the US makes more stuff.

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2011/01/the-demise-of-america%E2%80%99s-manufacturing-sector-has-been-greatly-exaggerated/

you say I'm an idiot

Yeah, truth hurts.

and that China are idiots for concentrating on manufacturing.

I never said that.

Government spending and government workers produce nothing . the 3 trillion $ annual government budget produces nothing but hardship for U.S. businesses

Yes, we need huge cuts in government.

By the amount that Chin has undervalued their currency so that a China worker makes 50 cents per hour so their production is really 50 times what it says in dollars ,

Your poor understanding of the currency issue is stunning, even when compared to your general lack of understanding.

[central_va]

But, Cringing, it isn't because of free trade -- it's because of [and you know all this] taxes, regulations, and inflation. Those are what makes the U.S. uncompetitive.

How did the USA survive as an economic powerhouse before that dumb ass Nixon played nicey nicey with Mao?

[central_va]

Why don't you rail against those as much as you complain about the right of American citizens to trade with whom they choose?

I have absolutely no right to get involved in any way with trade/commerce between Americans in the 50 US states.

When a third party nation is involved I am damn site well within my rights to get involved, actually it is my duty as a citizen to make sure this "trade" is fair and is in the best interest of my fellow citizens. Yes, I used the word fair.

[3Fingas]

I remember when the issues of “Most Favored Nation” trading status for China and WTO membership were under consideration, I called my Senators and Congressman on both occasions and asked them to vote against both measures. They did not listen to me. They were so-called “free-traders” like so many other confused Republicans then and now.

[1rudeboy]

I remember when folks understood what “MFN,” and “free-trader” actually meant. Now, protectionists throw the words around like candy. Suffice it to say, a free-trader wishing free trade with China would advocate a Free Trade Agreement, instead of the tariffs allowed under MFN.

[rurgan]

This is a more updated version of your graph. Even though this is in overvalued dollars you can still see the incredible rise of China and the decline of the U.S.

But China manufactures at least ten times more because their currency is undervalued. You call me an idiot but you don't even understand how China manipulates currency so companies can pay people 50 cents an hour( this was true for 30 years ).

Ok let me try to make this simple for all of you free traders who don't understand. Let's say I start a company in China making shirts. So I pay a china worker 50 cents an hour to make shirts. I also have a company in the U.S.A but I have to pay a worker $20 an hour. Let's say the fabric to make a shirt costs $1. My worker in China makes 10 shirts per day. so 8 hour work day X .50 cents per hour = 4 + $10 IN U.S.A = $14 . IN U.SA I have pay a workers 20 dollars an hour so I pay $160 for that worker to make 10 shirts ,$160 + $10 = $170

So the minimum price I can sell the 10 china shirts is $14 , while the minimum price i can sell the 10 American shirts is $170.. the what the china worker produced is worth $14 but and the U.s. worker worth $170 (at least).

So stats in dollars show here that U.S. workers are at least 10 x more "productive" and that the U.S manufactures 10 x more than china but it doesn't as each worker makes just 10 shirts, the same production.

So china really produces 10 x more if you use real production instead of currency as stats. This is shown when you look at real production of items as in China making most of electronics for 9 billion people earth and making most of the steel if you count it in tons.

The fact is China's currency is undervalued and the U.S. currency overvalued.

Many workers were paid even less in china , many 20 cents an hour and you think that people can live on 20 cents an hour? And you call me names because I understand this when you do not.

At least this should be corrected on the world stage and the U.S. shouldn't trade with any country that manipulates currency like China does.But you free traders are for China destroying the U.S. and all who live here. yeah you are so smug living off of debt and past wealth. It is you free traders who are the problem and helping china destroy the U.S. YOU free traders agree with all of the politicians who are all for China and have sold out the U.S. to China. not a single politician has done anything to fix the currency problem nor the trade with China problem etc. 99% of the people I talk to , real Americans agree with me that we should make things in America and have our stuff made in China. You agree with politicians over real Americans.

[Toddsterpatriot]

But China manufactures at least ten times more because their currency is undervalued.

No they don't.

You call me an idiot but you don't even understand how China manipulates currency

I've asked you before, explain. Spell it out.

Be as precise as you can.

Ok let me try to make this simple for all of you free traders who don't understand.

Irony is ironic.

My worker in China makes 10 shirts per day. so 8 hour work day X .50 cents per hour = 4 + $10 IN U.S.A = $14 . IN U.SA I have pay a workers 20 dollars an hour so I pay $160 for that worker to make 10 shirts ,$160 + $10 = $170

Here's where your 1st grade math fails. The American worker is 80 times more productive. Your Chinese worker makes 10 shirts for $4 and the American makes 800 shirts for $160.

[3Fingas]

I know what it means. Most Favored Nation...It was a trade arrangement that allowed countries, so designated, to have reduced, little, or no tariffs while trading with the US. Since the beginning of our republic, such a trade designation was meant to reward our allies and build good economic/diplomatic relations. Towards the end of the 1990’s, MFN had been extended to so many different countries that it became a nearly useless designation. If 80% of the countries you deal with have MFN status, than what is so special about that? The point is that China did not have MFN at that time. They did not have the the nearly unrestrained access to our markets that they now have. I thought it was a bad idea to extend it to them for economic and national security reasons (I think time has proven me right). The political class was enamored with the idea of free trade or bought-off by foreign powers, so they gave our country to the Chinese.

Putting American business and national security interests first is not protectionism, it is rational and Constitutional behavior. International Free-Trade Organizations such as the WTO, GATT, etc.(bodies to which our politicians have ceded much of our autonomy), are extra-Constitutional. Your argument is with Alexander Hamilton and the founding fathers, not me.