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Social Security Administration on Ammo Buy: 589 Bullets Per Agent Is Normal
CNSNews ^

Posted on 08/20/2012 8:22:09 AM PDT by Sub-Driver

Social Security Administration on Ammo Buy: 589 Bullets Per Agent Is Normal By Penny Starr August 17, 2012

(CNSNews.com) – Tracy Lynge, deputy assistant inspector general with the Social Security Administration’s Office of Inspector General, said the order for 174,000 rounds of hollow point bullets is normal for the agency to use in training its 295 special agents and arming them as law enforcement personnel deployed in 66 offices around the country.

The Social Security Administration (SSA) posted a "Request for Quote for Ammunition" on the FedBizOps.gov website on Aug. 7. The request listed the bullets that SSA wanted as ".357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition." The quantity listed was "174 TH." (See SSA order.pdf)

“As with other Federal law enforcement agencies, SSA’s OIG [Office of Inspector General] has established training requirements, such as mandatory quarterly firearms qualifications,” Lynge told CNSNews.com in an Aug. 17 e-mail in response to questions about the ammunition acquisition. “This training uses a considerable amount of ammunition.”

“For example, 290 agents training four times per year and using 150 rounds per training session would need 174,000 rounds,” Lynge said.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: agenda21; banglist
Oh, ok.......
1 posted on 08/20/2012 8:22:13 AM PDT by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver

Actually knowing the requirements, this does make sense but the 750 million rounds being sought by the DHS is either about 75,000 rds per agent or there are more agents there then we know of.


2 posted on 08/20/2012 8:25:24 AM PDT by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
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To: Sub-Driver

600-rounds per shooter doesn’t sound like all that many. I can burn through half of that in a couple of hours at the range.

The real issue is that people didn’t know the SSA had shooters.

SnakeDoc


3 posted on 08/20/2012 8:27:41 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens, Justified)
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To: Sub-Driver

Oh, ok... they have too d*mn many “agents” then.


4 posted on 08/20/2012 8:27:50 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working fors)
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To: Sub-Driver

And they are using premium duty ammo in training? I think not. How hard do the armed social security workers train? Qualifying annually I understand, but are they going through some other kind of training? The whole thing (all the other massive ammo purchases) and NOAA uparming require a better explanation.


5 posted on 08/20/2012 8:28:30 AM PDT by 1malumprohibitum
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To: Sub-Driver

Why do they need hollow point ammunition to shoot at targets?


6 posted on 08/20/2012 8:28:30 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Sub-Driver

It’s not the quantity of ammo that bothers me, it’s the quality of the ammo.

You don’t need premium grade ammo for training.


7 posted on 08/20/2012 8:29:48 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: Sub-Driver
So every agency of the federal government has an enforcement arm now?
I guess an agency like the FBI can't chase down social security fraud...

In any event, this is also typical government waste of money.
I train/practice with cheap .45 230 gr. ball ammo and I carry high-dollar stop-em-in-their-tracks ammo.
The feds should do the same.

8 posted on 08/20/2012 8:30:03 AM PDT by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party of No, Nobama, No Way, No How!)
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To: Sub-Driver
I had 22 years in the Army Reserve and post ROTC I qualified only once with the pistol (9mm) which took exactly 50 rounds of ammo. I scored 300 out of a possible 300 having never fired that weapon before. But I often spend time at the range firing 22 shorts for practice as well as 38 Special, 41 mag, 44 mag, and 45.

Maybe the “Green” government can buy some 22 shorts too instead of always using full calibre ammo.

9 posted on 08/20/2012 8:31:30 AM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American that a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: Sub-Driver

10 posted on 08/20/2012 8:32:40 AM PDT by Old Sarge (We are now officially over the precipice, we just havent struck the ground yet)
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To: Sub-Driver

btt


11 posted on 08/20/2012 8:35:17 AM PDT by TEXOKIE (Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little. EdmondBurke)
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To: Sub-Driver

Just why do Social Security “agents” need to be armed? I would assume they are all just bureaucrats and not law enforcement officers so why have them armed? If there is some crime or suspected crime wouldn’t they be working with the FBI or even local police? This is scary.


12 posted on 08/20/2012 8:35:44 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: 1malumprohibitum; Paleo Conservative; IMR 4350; grobdriver

If you’re serious and have the money to do it (or, well, somebody else’s money), you train with what you carry - and you carry what you’re willing to stake your life on. Getting shot at by a high-stakes felon-in-progress is not when you want to discover that your department-issued sidearm doesn’t like “ashtray” JHPs all the time, refusing to cycle on 5% of ‘em.

Yes, I’ve burned thru 2000+ rounds of JHP in one week of training before. Still would if I could afford it. SSA can afford it.


13 posted on 08/20/2012 8:35:53 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: SnakeDoctor

***The real issue is that people didn’t know the SSA had shooters.***

Gotta do something with oldsters who have lived too long. Sarc/off


14 posted on 08/20/2012 8:38:01 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Tyrannies demand immense sacrifices of their people to produce trifles.-Marquis de Custine)
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To: 1malumprohibitum
And they are using premium duty ammo in training? I think not

Actually, that's exactly what these bastards do. A friend of my family runs a fairly large, fairly well known shooting school in the upper midwest. We have heard his tales of Fedzilla Agents hiring him and his facility for various training exercises, showing up with a truckload of top-dollar JHP ammo, and burning through the lot in a weekend.

15 posted on 08/20/2012 8:40:30 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: SnakeDoctor

When did people start using Hollow points for practice?


16 posted on 08/20/2012 8:42:35 AM PDT by mortal19440
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To: The Great RJ
Just why do Social Security “agents” need to be armed?

Because high-stakes fraud happens, and police aren't versed in nuances of the Social Security law someone needs to know to take down a felon-in-progress and not lose key evidence in the process. Those agents are citizens too, and have a right to defend themselves while doing what sometimes is, in fact, a dangerous job. That there's a team of FBI agents present may not be comforting when hot Pb starts flying.

Ditto other agencies. Sometimes they have to deal with serious criminals. I don't begrudge those agents being armed and training appropriately. NOAA, SSA, DHS, etc have a few branches that can get into sticky situations.

Justification does not, of course, preempt all curiosity and concerns though...

17 posted on 08/20/2012 8:43:57 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: mortal19440

When they started staking their lives on it.


18 posted on 08/20/2012 8:45:33 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: Sub-Driver

Misster Anderson.....

We all know this is business as usual....

There is no real change, except that change is constant.....

These images you are fixating on are merely projections, an emotional response.....like love, no more or less significant than the result of ingesting a large amount of chocolate......

You see these images and ask why........

Your question should be, Why do I care.....

This is why you will either toe the line Misster Anderson, or you will be absorbed.....

“......my name is Neo!.....”

Actually, the South Park officer makes more sense and is easier to portray without resorting to odd phonetic consstructions.........

.02


19 posted on 08/20/2012 8:46:42 AM PDT by petro45acp ("Don't" read 'HOPE' by L Neil Smith and Aaron Zelman...it will bring tears to eyes. BORE!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: mortal19440

I use mostly hollowpoints for practice. No real price difference, at least at retail.

Seems simpler to order one type of ammo rather than separate rounds for practice and enforcement. These aren’t SEALs or SFOD-D, they’re SSA Enforcement Agents. They’re only going through 600 rounds a year ... I doubt technical round selection is a major component of their job.

SnakeDoc


20 posted on 08/20/2012 8:49:27 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens, Justified)
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To: Sub-Driver

Loading up, they know we will be real mad once they steal the election in November.


21 posted on 08/20/2012 8:50:26 AM PDT by hadaclueonce (you are paying 12% more for fuel because of Ethanol. Smile big Corn Lobby,)
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To: ctdonath2
Yes, I’ve burned thru 2000+ rounds of JHP in one week of training before. Still would if I could afford it. SSA can afford it.

You are still affording it, albeit indirectly through taxes.

22 posted on 08/20/2012 8:50:43 AM PDT by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: The Great RJ
Just why do Social Security “agents” need to be armed?

to stop Paul Ryan from pushing granny off the cliff.

23 posted on 08/20/2012 8:56:46 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: Paleo Conservative

“Why do they need hollow point ammunition to shoot at targets?”

Don’t you see that circle on your forehead when you look in the mirror?


24 posted on 08/20/2012 9:05:55 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: mortal19440
When did people start using Hollow points for practice?

Well, speaking just for myself, I take the same rounds to the range that I keep in my magazines. I tried FMJ's once in this pistol, and it doesn't like them. Not one jam with self-defense rounds, but several just going through one box of the cheap stuff.

25 posted on 08/20/2012 9:11:29 AM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: ctdonath2

“I don’t begrudge those agents being armed and training appropriately. NOAA, SSA, DHS, etc have a few branches that can get into sticky situations”.

All of the listed agencies, are bureaucratic, as are many others now with their own private armies.

There is no authority for government to engage in the raising of private armies, nor is there authority to fund them. They are there strictly to go after “we the people”.

Only someone with a very limited knowledge of the Constitution of the United States would be agreeing with the need for armed bureaucrats looking for work.

This is just one more example of a Congress that has shirked its responsibilities to the people for whom they work and from whom they receive their power.

The last time I checked, the second amendment is more for our protection from out of control government than it is for rogue police agencies to protect themselves from us.


26 posted on 08/20/2012 9:13:53 AM PDT by wita
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To: Paleo Conservative
Why do they need hollow point ammunition to shoot at targets?

Because you practice with what you carry. If the ammo / firearm combo you carry has feeding problems, you are better off finding out at the range.

Now - as to why the department of education and the SSA need guns at all.....

27 posted on 08/20/2012 9:17:29 AM PDT by NY.SS-Bar9
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To: Sub-Driver

They sound like a bunch of dead-eyes to me..

If ya need to practice that often when you’re dealing with older folks..
maybe ya need to lead ‘em a little less..

Older folk ain’t that fast.. unless they’re going for their weapon.


28 posted on 08/20/2012 9:17:33 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: 1malumprohibitum

Actually, 600 rounds per officer doesn’t do much for proficiency. The military has been teaching Train like you fight and fight like you train for years.

My concern is that there are that many “armed enforcement agents in the SSA” and why the exotic caliber of .357 sig. The 9mm is fine for the army and the .40 S&W is good for the FBI. Whats up? I wonder what the gun purchases look like and if they have this many shooters for Ganny Cops, what other administrative agencies are now enforcement agencies?


29 posted on 08/20/2012 9:26:27 AM PDT by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: Sub-Driver

Attempt to run up the price of ammo before the election so that the “peasants” cannot afford any?


30 posted on 08/20/2012 9:29:01 AM PDT by eieio1
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To: mortal19440

When did people start using Hollow points for practice?


The same day they found out that the government was on the hook for the purchase.

If you think about it full automatic weapons are not a problem in the general populous because it takes a government to provide care and feeding for them.


31 posted on 08/20/2012 9:30:01 AM PDT by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: SnakeDoctor
I use mostly hollowpoints for practice. No real price difference, at least at retail.

Show me.

Seriously. Where are you buying your ammunition? What caliber? Are you referring to loaded ammunition, or reloading components?

Your claim is completely irreconcilable with my experience buying ammunition ...

But that's OK. If you can show where, for example Hornady XTP loaded ammunition can be had for no more than 10% premium over same weight, same velocity ball ammunition ...

I'm very interested to know.

32 posted on 08/20/2012 9:40:32 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: mortal19440

“When did people start using Hollow points for practice?”

This actually comes from the “...every round fired has a lawyer attached to it...” file.

Seems like centuries ago, the LAPD/Sherrif’s reloaded their own practice .38 ammunition. Don’t remember if they were full up .357 at that time, but the practice ammo was lead, and the carry was JS/HP.

Guessing now, but bet a lawyer made the case that training with target ammo, then loading up with “mankiller-carstopper-shreadding-hollowpoint” ammunition was a bad practice.

Enter “train what you carry” rules.

Not a bad idea for those that go about armed so long as inexpensive training ammo is available (reloads?). For agencies, it usually boils down to just buy extra of the carry, and train with that......meaning.....

The 9mm 147 gr hydrashock “subsonic” is a perfect example of an agency round. Works in everything, somewhat effective, and now that it has been manufactured for a bunch of years by the millions, less expensive than switching.

Hollow points become “training” rounds when training with them becomes the path of lease resistance against cost, function, cost, policy, cost, and cost.....

.02,
Stay alert


33 posted on 08/20/2012 9:46:25 AM PDT by petro45acp ("Don't" read 'HOPE' by L Neil Smith and Aaron Zelman...it will bring tears to eyes. BORE!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: ctdonath2
If your department issue doesn't cycle 5% of the time with HP, then you are better off using ball ammo.

If your ammo doesn't cycle your issue 5% of the time, why would they buy the junk ammo to begin with? Were they too stupid to test it before purchase?

SSA felony in progress is on the level of FRAUD, not a hell of a whole lot of violent crime in progress to begin with, so having a major shoot out sit likely.

Busting a major SSA fraud ring, they aren't going in alone anyway. They will have FBI or Marshall with them.

34 posted on 08/20/2012 9:53:45 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: ArrogantBustard

I buy ammo mostly at the Wal-Mart close to home — .45 and 9mm.

If there’s a price difference, it wasn’t enough for me to notice. I’d have to check the brands. I ain’t all that brand loyal — Winchester, Remington, etc. Maybe Blazer.

SnakeDoc


35 posted on 08/20/2012 9:59:00 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens, Justified)
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To: SnakeDoctor

OK. Thanks. That explains it.


36 posted on 08/20/2012 10:03:37 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: IMR 4350

The concern is YOUR ammo in YOUR gun. Most ammo may run fine in most guns for most users, but unless YOU have run YOUR ammo in YOUR gun to YOUR satisfaction, be wary of staking YOUR life on it. YOU do the testing, just like YOU fold YOUR parachute.

And sure, agents are not going in alone. Should “that moment” happen, it’s YOUR problem, not theirs. Felons-in-progress may not be violent in the given crime, but may fast get there when resisting getting busted.


37 posted on 08/20/2012 10:42:57 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: SnakeDoctor

“The real issue is that people didn’t know the SSA had shooters.”

I don’t think they do have “Shooters” I think like Barney Fife give them a couple of rounds to stick in a shirt pocket.


38 posted on 08/20/2012 10:58:00 AM PDT by Syntyr (Happiness is two at low eight!)
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To: IMR 4350

if your job included knocking on doors in the projects to see if granny really was alive and kicking at 101 or someong else was cashing her check... would you carry a gun?


39 posted on 08/20/2012 10:58:22 AM PDT by lack-of-trust
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To: Sub-Driver

“589 Bullets Per Agent Is Normal”

Where? In Afghanistan? Detroit? Chicago?

The military always gets nickled and dimed on ammo, but SSA, DHS, and other government agencies get more ammo than they need?

Figures.


40 posted on 08/20/2012 11:38:58 AM PDT by 2CAVTrooper ( For those who have had to fight for it, freedom has a flavor the protected shall never know.)
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To: 1malumprohibitum
And they are using premium duty ammo in training? I think not.

Why not? It's not *their* money paying for that premium ammo. Further, there's probably a procurement manager somewhere who got an office award for eliminating the redundant (cheaper practice) ammunition purchases.

41 posted on 08/20/2012 11:39:07 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: SnakeDoctor

“The real issue is that people didn’t know the SSA had shooters.”

They have their own “police” department that provides security for the SSA offices.

Check this out for other FedGov “police” departments:

http://policecararchives.org/federal.html


42 posted on 08/20/2012 12:00:44 PM PDT by 2CAVTrooper ( For those who have had to fight for it, freedom has a flavor the protected shall never know.)
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