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To: arrogantsob
You really should study a little NON-crackpot history before making such sweeping statements. Should you do so you will find than not only were there frequent deep depressions throughout the 19th century. Added to them were regular financial “panics”. These raised havoc with the economy and life in the U.S.

We went without the foreign bankers from the Jackson Administration to the Wilson Administration. During this time we added most of the western states to our nation, built the railroads, went from a wood and horse based society to an iron and steel industrial based society. We did just fine without the en-slavers. We had one depression due to a gold ship sinking, an anomaly. The other slow-downs were survivable. Now with the Federal Reserve System, we face the collapse of our nation with the collapse of our dollar.

In fact, it was PRECISELY because of the frequency and destructiveness of such events that there was a loud and long demand from farmers and Westerners for a Reserve Banking system. They were tired of being wiped out arbitrarily by the Money Center Banks back East.

Now we face the collapse of our nation with the collapse of our dollar. That was not a problem before the Federal Reserve system.

Panics were sometimes stopped when the bankers, under the leadership of J.P. Morgan, stepped in and used their financial power to provide sufficient liquidity to handle the runs on banks. It was only after he died that these financiers and bankers realized that some other means of handling these disturbances would have to be found.

In between the Jackson and the Wilson Administrations, the international bankers, whom JP Morgan was their agent, conspired to get their foot back into the door. It's the old trick of causing the problem and then coming up with a solution to fool the people into thinking they couldn't go without them. You see it today. We over-regulate with Dodd-Frank causing financial duress, so the enemies of freedom blame freedom and call for more regulation.

The Money Center Banks had opposed a Reserve Bank (because it diminished their power) for decades only changing their minds after the death of Morgan. There was no giant conspiracy. This was a Populist demand.

Most of the big-money opposition to the Federal Reserve were killed on the so-called Titanic Disaster, the White Star line being part of the JP Morgan empire. Morgan was supposed to be on that ship that day but missed it due to "illness". While the big opposition of the Federal Reserve were drowning in the Atlantic, Morgan was went down to the south of France. Populist demand gave us Obama, so that's meaningless.

Nor is there any natural tendency towards inflation posed by central banking.

You've got to be kidding. Gold is still $20 an ounce?

Rather than “a little deflation” which you fantasize existed there was persistent and severe deflation caused by the lack of money,...

Looks like to me we did just fine. We advanced nicely from the Jackson Administration to the Wilson Administration.

...not to mention the complications caused to the bi-metallic system we were on when the ratio of gold to silver was upset by discoveries of one metal or the other. From 1814-49 the wholesale price index fell 55%, only the discovery of gold in California inflated the economy out of the depression.

I agree we need to pick just one: gold.

In order for the economy to grow at an acceptable level it has to have a money supply which grows at least at 3% per year.

Only for a debt-based economy. We need to get away from a debt-based economy.

Since the discovery of the New World the average rate of growth of the gold and silver supply has been LESS than 1.2% i.e. a persistent deflation. And this growth rate INCLUDES the massive supplies brought into Europe in the 16th century.

Like I keep saying, we did just fine between Jackson and Wilson. How do you explain the growth of our nation in that time?

The term “fiat” currency is not particularly informative since that does not describe the money we use. No matter how many government “fiats” are proclaimed they cannot make currency valuable if the people do not believe it to be so. It really is a “faith” currency and that faith is sustained by the ability to purchase things with that currency.

Fiat currencies are not back by anything tangible and they all fail. Do you think it's healthy to have our national debt more than our GDP? That always happens under a fiat currency, the printing presses go wild enslaving the rest of us.

Since the creation of the Federal Reserve the American consumer has seen a dramatic increase in his living standards and is able to purchase and own things which Kings of old could not afford.

This increase has been due to increases in productivity, not due to the Federal Reserve. There hasn't been hardly any increase in standard of living since the dollar went totally off gold under Nixon.

Central banking, like all human activities, has not always been directed by right-minded directors but that does not indicate in any way that it is an inappropriate institution or one in opposition to the needs of the citizens.

When the value of dollar starts racing toward zero, I'll have to see what you've got to say about it.

34 posted on 10/06/2012 4:48:07 PM PDT by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: Partisan Gunslinger

I don’t know if I have the time to address all the falsehoods you believe but I will try.

1) foreign (read JEW) bankers do not control the U.S. economy and never did but foreign bankers had far more influence over it before the Federal Reserve was established.

Because of its control of the gold reserves through the discount rate the Bank of England determined much of what happened in America while the lunatic Jackson was attacking the National Bank. He appealed to the most ignorant of voters, a typical Democrat class warrior, and, naturally, implemented the most ignorant policies.

His destruction of the 2d National Bank set off a decade of currency chaos (Wildcat Banking, shinplasters, worthless state-chartered bank currency) which was only relieved by the discovery of gold in California.

2) Our dollar is not collapsing. You are confusing 2% with 2000%, a natural mistake if you don’t pay attention.

3) J.P. Morgan was the major financial figure for decades before the Federal Reserve. He did not need it to exercise control. Besides he was near death when it was created and the recognition that he was not immortal spurred its creation to take his role.

4) American growth during the first half of the 19th century was largely fueled by British capital investing in railroads. The U.S. ran a persistent balance of payments deficit during this period. This infrastructure investment (of which we were not capable even with a central bank) allowed the transportation revolution which opened up the heartland to foreign trade. Hamilton’s policies had made America a trusted place for investment.

5) When even icebergs are part of the conspiracy you may as well surrender.

6) Gold is a valuable and rare commodity with many uses which cannot be reproduced so it costs a lot of money. But it can buy you many more interesting things. It can’t be used as money because of its rarity and its non-monetary uses. It never will be again.

7) You are not describing economic conditions accurately if you believe we were “fine” under Jackson. We were far from it and were mired in the worst depression until the Great Depression as I have told you. Study the real history of he period. It is filled with class conflict, strikes, riots, and immense suffering. Largely because the money supply was either too low or too concentrated in the East or both.

8) Debt is an inextricable and necessary element of capitalist economics. Without debt growth becomes very difficult.

9) Gold supplies are insufficiently elastic to accommodate a growing economy and I showed you the figures, even though you ignored them. That is the reason gold will never again be a monetary instrument.

10) Currency values are determined by what they can buy and the dollar buys plenty.

11) Our currency and our debt have remained highly sought after from the time Hamilton established our financial system, one of the greatest works of genius in financial history. THIS system was one of the biggest reasons our economy grew and expanded during the 19th century. Our strength and power was thanks to Hamilton fought every step of the way by the Class Warriors.

12) Living standards IN REALITY have gone up during the 20th century until the last four years. Now compared to some calculated index it may not have but when viewed correctly they clearly have. Medical services, automobiles, electronics, house size, computer technology, vastly expanded choices throughout the economy have all exploded in beneficial ways not picked up by price indexes.

37 posted on 10/06/2012 11:05:37 PM PDT by arrogantsob (The Disaster MUST Go. Sarah herself supports Romney.)
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