Posted on 07/06/2013 12:02:24 PM PDT by FreedomPoster
Currently just Tweets and locals talking about this, nothing on news sites yet. Lots of stuff in the Twitter feed, including links to uploaded videos of the smoking mess.
I fly the B777 into SFO frequently. The flightaware.com data is not indicative of a normal approach to land. Most airlines target to reach planned approach speed and descent rate by 1000' and no later than 500'AGL. Should be about 700fpm descent rate going through 500' AGL down to 50'. NORCAL and SFO Tower frequently request fairly high speeds until about 6 miles out on final (DUYET on ILS28L). That leaves a lot going on during the descending decel to approach speed, which requires several steps of flap extension, and without the ILS glideslope its a pretty busy task. During the decel there is no set "pitch picture" to use to maintain a constant visual descent gradient as the plane is constantly slowing as flaps are extended. It's quite easy in that circumstance to get above or below, but that should have been squared away by 1000' AGL. (At my airline if all is not squared away by 500' we MUST go-around. Its likely the airport ILS glideslope out of service contributed to the bad outcome, with the aircraft unintentionally sinking through the intended approach path.
Regarding the flightaware data, the 3rd and 4th 02:25pm data points are where he would pass DUYET, 1800MSL on the ILS. He was actually between 2400' and 2200' with an ground speed of 187 kts, probably around 200KIAS. High and Fast! Just before the ending, the second to last data point is interesting - lat/long coord approximately at the beginning of the approach lights, too slow, too low. If the last data point is accurate, 85 knots ground speed would be at or perhaps beyond stall speed, with the lat/long coordinates approximately at the RWY28L threshold. That matches what some witnesses recounted, the aircraft was "dragging in", the nose was high/tail low at impact.
The flight came from Seoul Incheon airport. In addition to the pilot and copilot, there would have been one, probably two, additional augmenting pilots in the cockpit because the flight exceeds 8 hours.
1320 fpm sink rate at 600 ft. AGL on approach? Sounds way high too me...any heavy jet pilots here to fill us in on normal sink rates near landing? http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR214/history/20130706/0730Z/RKSI/KSFO/tracklog
Yep, I meant to try and find another “FlightAware” log for another 777 on approach to SFO, but I didn’t get the time...thanks for the analysis! It will be interesting to see the flight data recorder data and the pilot interviews! They fixed the “fuel slushy” problem that got the 777 in London a few years back didn’t they?
I wonder if any of those members would turn away the female firefighter if she turned up to save them or their family....
I heard a pilot on KFI say that the ILS at SFO was out for weeks. Was this due to any budget cuts from the sequester? That would be pretty scary.
The flight aware.com profile for the day before flight, Asiana 214-5Jul RKSI to KSFO, shows what a perfect descent profile looks like. You could also look at a United B-777 which landed on 28L or 28R just 15 minutes ahead of the accident Asiana. That example would be United 852-6Jul RJAA to KSFO - another perfect profile. In both these examples, the speeds and descent rates are fairly constant below 1500’ to touchdown.
The B777 is a pilot-directed, computer-flown aircraft. The black boxes have recorded in digital format everything the pilots asked for and every response the aircraft provided. Pretty much everything is recorded, aircraft location, performance, pilot inputs, flight control and engine status and response,etc. And there is of course a cockpit voice recorder which will reveal what was, or was not, said.
Asiana B777-200s use Pratt&Whitney 4090 engines. The P&W 4000 series is an aviation design champion and has been around for 20 to 30 years. The notorious engines involved in the London British Airways B777 crash are Rolls-Royce Trent. An altogether different animal. Whether they’ve fixed the RR Trent fuel icing problem, time will tell.
Does it seem strange that Fox News has covered ONLY the plane crash since last night? They pre-empted Judge Jeanine.
Don’t know about other stations...but this is like a blackout of other news.
Other news channels did the same till at least 600 pm (when I stopped watching).
Was a lurker at FR when 9-11 happened and FR is where I first learned of it.
I thought that was the train explosion in Quebec with 60 missing?
Don’t know about other stations...but this is like a blackout of other news.
I found that to be strange myself. Everything was pre-empted.
Injuries on those brought to Stanford varied widely, but included internal bleeding, numerous fractures, several spinal fractures and blunt force injuries, Spain said.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/45-sfo-crash-patients-stanford-3-critical-10-serio/nYfpR/
I think that must be it, and I just saw someone get the two events crossed up in a post.
From La times
The two passengers who died on the Asiana Airlines flight that crash landed in San Francisco were teenagers from China, a Korean news service agency reported Sunday.
The Seoul-based Yonhap News Agency, covering a press conference held by Asiana Airlines President Yoon Yong-doo, said the two Chinese victims were born in 1996 and 1997. Asiana Flight 214 originated in Shanghai and stopped in Seoul before crashing at San Francisco International Airport on Saturday morning.
SFO officials said 182 people were transported to area hospitals, 49 of those with critical injuries. Initially, 60 people were considered unaccounted for, but San Francisco Mayor Ed Lee confirmed at a 7:45 p.m. press conference that every one on board the plane had been accounted for.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Boeing-777-Crashes-at-SFO-214483741.html
I remain amazed that everyone got off.
I see. Sorry, my mistake.
The replays of the tower audio shown so far start around impact. But as the flightaware data shows the problems were well before then.
I think XHogPilot describes it well above.
As a non-pilot I have reached the limits of what I can contibute. But the data shows anything but a ‘normal’ approach. And having done that landing weekly for almost a year its usually a very smooth, long, relaxed approach. After coming over the mountains they would line you up around San Jose and it always felt like you were just gliding in. I would see the San Mateo bridge, then the bay, then land. Constant speed and a smooth, steady decent. Other than flap adjustments it seemed the landings were almost on autopilot. And this was mostly 737 landings.
Maybe with the ILS gear out and the relative routineness of landings the tower did not catch the bad slope until too late. But if that is the case it should have done a go-around. SFO is not LaGuardia in terms of congestion. A go around should have been a non-issue for all parties.
Excuse me? I am totally on board with the physical differences between men and women, and I am against women in combat, etc. However, I have a high stress every split second counts job. I don’t know the number of times I have had to make life and death decisions in an instant in the 36th (that’s tight 36th) hour of my shift. And I do it quite well. Thereis no difference in mental amd stress capacity between men and women. In fact women may be better in stress situations due to our ability to multi task. Let’s not get carried away here.
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