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History of Liberty: Judge Napalitano on the Civil War and the Gilded Age
http://www.youtube.com ^ | June 12, 2012

Posted on 08/16/2013 7:59:53 PM PDT by NKP_Vet

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To: Tau Food
Oh man are you gonna take heat over that one ;-)
341 posted on 08/23/2013 9:13:53 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: rockrr
Oh man are you gonna take heat over that one ;-)

Only if someone wants to nitpick what I said. There's really nothing too controversial about my post. ;-)

342 posted on 08/23/2013 1:38:40 PM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Smokin' Joe: "While we have not completely reached that point, we are close.
Even the Founders understood the necessity of throwing off the shackles of tyranny.
If that cannot be effected within the law, it will be attempted outside those bounds. "

Remember this: before the Civil War there were several proposals, beginning with President Jefferson, to purchase freedom for slaves, and offer them to return to Africa.
All such proposals were rejected by slave-holders, and most former slaves did not want to return to Africa.

But the cost of purchasing freedom for millions of slaves, while astronomical, was still less than the total costs of Civil War in money alone, to say nothing of hundreds of thousands killed.

Moral of the story is: rebellion is seldom the best answer, especially rebellion doomed to lose.

343 posted on 08/25/2013 2:12:35 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK
At the time, those in bondage were the tractors and harvesters of the crops which were the very lifeblood of the agrarian South. Who would sell the means of production without a way to replace it? Some of those crops today defy attempts to mechanize harvesting, particularly tobacco, which I harvested in much the same way as my forbearers--by hand.

While much of the Northern industries were mechanized, even then those who worked in them were treated as badly as slaves or worse, because they represented a replaceable part in the mechanism of production from a ready labor pool of new immigrants. Not so in the South, so who would sell? I am not justifying the institution, merely explaining why it was so difficult to abolish. Without cheap labor (difficult to find for seasonal jobs), the slaves would not be sold.

As for today, I'm not advocating rebellion--such would be bloody, and the balkanization of the United States (the most likely outcome) would herald the end of superpower status. Current continued unrestrained spending and increasing social programs, including Obamacare, may do so anyway. We, as a nation, are broke--and have been for some time.

For the past 50 years, however, the Federal leviathan has only been inhibited in its growth by the absence of twisted arguments placed before the SCOTUS. Not even the lack of funding has stopped the expansion of the Government, nor slowed the usurpation of power from the states and the infringements on the Rights of the People.

The result is a new generation with neither conscience nor hope, with no vision to get from their beginnings to the fulfillment of what was known as the American Dream, who are increasingly becoming parasites on a failing host.

They have also been infused with the concept that they deserve all the perks and bennies they see daily displayed in the unreality of television which they have been conditioned to accept as normal.

Nothing to lose, nothing to gain, and observing a government which will neither enforce nor follow its own laws while segments of the population run feral. It is only a matter of time before they, too, decide they can behave equally, with equal viciousness to obtain that which they want, be that lucre or entertainment.

The only question is one of whether or not we have passed the point where the existing institutions (Governmental and societal) can be purged, cleaned, and restored, or whether the decay will inevitably run its course and whatever comes in its stead be rebuilt from the ashes.

I reckon we'll find out. I place no faith in those in Government today--especially those alleged guardians of our Liberty who have the power to call out those who are abusing their power and usurping more. They have failed to do so, miserably, as a group.

344 posted on 08/25/2013 5:57:54 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Smokin' Joe: "At the time, those in bondage were the tractors and harvesters of the crops which were the very lifeblood of the agrarian South.
Who would sell the means of production without a way to replace it?"

Of course, but many who post on FR CW threads tell us that slavery was in decline and on the road to a "natural death", so your point needs to be made.
In reality, by 1860 slavery had never been more profitable, slaves never more in demand, and slave-holders never more determined to provide all legal protections necessary for their "peculiar institution".

So my point is not that a peaceful buy-out of slaves was ever seriously possible, at the time, only that in hind-sight, as it happens, it would have cost less in treasure alone, much less all those killed.

Smokin' Joe: "Some of those crops today defy attempts to mechanize harvesting, particularly tobacco, which I harvested in much the same way as my forbearers--by hand."

I also have some small experience, as a boy, harvesting tobacco and know a bit about it.
I also note with interest where in the north, and who, often grows it today... ;-)

Also, cotton & other cash crops continued to be raised after the Civil War.
For example, after the war, US exports of cotton remained the same as before, around 3 million bales, but world-wide alternate sources, developed during the war, drove prices down and impoverished many farmers.
Mechanized cotton-pickers didn't arrive until the 1950s.

As for today, your analysis is pretty much spot-on with my own.
I don't see how the current situation can continue indefinitely.
But I fear that descendants of slaves from Africa, plus serfs from Europe and coolies from Asia have all bought into their formers masters' myths, and wish to re-create them here, with master living in the Big House (now in DC), and benevolently providing for all his benighted "children".

So, where conservatives offer voters "more freedom", liberal/progressives offer "more free-stuff", and too many agree with Janis Joplin's song: "freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose."
Those people chose "more free-stuff".

Hard to say if there's serious hope for the future of our formerly Free Republic.

345 posted on 08/25/2013 8:29:33 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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