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To: BroJoeK

“Your good buddy, Jeffy-baby’s Confederates did all of those things before a single Confederate soldier was killed in battle with the United States Army”

No, it was your hero Ape Lincoln who refused to get Federal troops out of the free and independent state of SC. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew that SC would use force to get the ENEMY out of that state. The POS not only got what he wanted, but more, when 5 other states sided with the Confederacy instead of supplying troops to kill other Southerners.

Secession from the Union was not considered in NC until reports came of the April 12 bombardment of Fort Sumter near Charleston, South Carolina. Lincoln would call for 75,000 troops on April 17, in order to suppress the “rebellion”. Governor Ellis responded to Lincolns order by writing a telegram saying “I regard the levy of troops made by the Administration for the purposes of subjugating the States of the South, as in violation of the Constitution, and as a gross usurpation of power. I can be no part to this wicked violation of the laws of the Country and to this war upon the liberties of a free people. You can get no troops from North Carolina”

PS: Slavery had nothing at all to do with NC seceeding from the Union. The refusal to go to war with their fellow Southern states had everything to do with it and Gov Ellis rightfully told Ape Lincoln to kiss his ass.


212 posted on 08/20/2013 7:05:09 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
...when 5 other states sided with the Confederacy instead of supplying troops to kill other Southerners.

Your math is as creative as your version of history. Following the attack on Sumter only 4 states joined the rebellion - Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Arkansas.

213 posted on 08/20/2013 7:11:04 AM PDT by 0.E.O
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To: NKP_Vet
NKP_Vet: "No, it was your hero Ape Lincoln who refused to get Federal troops out of the free and independent state of SC."

In fact, every Federal property in secessionist states -- dozens of them -- legally remained Federal property after the Slave Power declared secession.
No law anywhere says otherwise.
For a modern example, consider Gitmo at the time of Communist take-over in Cuba.
It remained US property, regardless of what Castro might have fantasized.

So, every secessionist seizure of Federal properties, every threat against Federal officials, every shooting at United States ships or forts, was an unlawful act of rebellion, insurrection and/or war.

FRiend, this is not even debatable: Confederates military assault on Fort Sumter was, factually, an act of war against the United States, confirmed three weeks later by the Confederacy's formal declaration of war against the United States, May 6, 1861.
And, all that came before even a single Confederate soldier had been killed in battle against the United States Army.

NKP_Vet: "He knew exactly what he was doing.
He knew that SC would use force to get the ENEMY out of that state.
The POS not only got what he wanted, "

FRiend, remember this: the choice for war against the United States in 1861 was (as in 1941) strictly in the hands of America's enemies.
In 1861 Jefferson Davis chose to begin war at Fort Sumter, just as in 1941 the Japanese chose to begin war at Pearl Harbor.

It is precisely the same situation.

NKP_Vet: "Secession from the Union was not considered in NC until reports came of the April 12 bombardment of Fort Sumter..."

Exactly -- Fort Sumter was a huge success for Jefferson Davis.
In one fell swoop, four previously committed Union states voted to switch sides and join the Confederacy -- Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas.
The Confederacy's white population doubled along with its available army manpower.
That alone can explain Davis' eagerness to start war at Fort Sumter.

But four other slave-states still did not join the Confederacy -- Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri and Delaware -- still Davis was not discouraged.
Instead, he sent or supported Confederate military in Union Border-States to take by force what he could not win with votes.

And then the Confederacy formally declared war on the United States, at which point their fate was sealed: Unconditional Surrender.

NKP_Vet: "Slavery had nothing at all to do with NC seceeding from the Union."

Somewhat correct, and the same is true of Upper-South Virginia, Tennessee and Arkansas.
So long as the only question was slavery, those four states formally refused to succeed.
Only when Jefferson Davis first started war at Fort Sumter and then formally declared war on the United States, when Upper-South states felt they must chose sides in a war to protect slavery, then they finally chose to join the slave-power.

At the same time, four Border States still refused to secede, and so were subject to repeated Confederate invasions, battles and bloodshed.

240 posted on 08/20/2013 9:58:29 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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