Why wrong? Explain your case. The Revolution was secession from England. Why can’t people decide? Why FORCE people to remain tied politically? And, why do conservatives lose their ability to think logically when it comes to the The Civil War?
“And, why do conservatives lose their ability to think logically when it comes to the The Civil War?”
It’s only the Lincoln Cult that has that difficulty.
Stephen would agree with you in five or six languages, I know I do. Good comment.
Good questions. Let's start with the last one first. I think that a lot of folks are emotionally invested in the War Between The States. Maybe it is because their ancestors lost a war? Personally I don't understand how they can be so wrapped up by events that ended 150 years ago, but I accept that there are those who are.
The Revolution was secession from England.
No it wasn't. The Revolutionary War was a rebellion against the British crown. The colonials tried for years to make their case for a representational seat at the table and were subjected to true acts of subjugation and tyranny for their efforts. When the Brits attempted to impose the tea tax shipments of tea sat unloaded, rotting at the piers and on the ships because Americans refused to accept the cargo with its poison pill. When the Boston Tea Party occurred the Brits responded by quarantining the harbor. When Americans responded by smuggling supplies into Boston the Brits sent out scouting parties to intercept and arrest them. Then the Brits advanced on Lexington to disarm the colonials. We know what happened next.
By contrast the southern slavers agitated a violent separation from the union thinly wrapped in the pretense of a secession. The orthodox definition of secession is the formal separation from an alliance or federation. But that is not how the slavers proceeded. Unlike the colonials, the slavers didn't avail themselves of their constitutional right (and duty) of redress. They didn't take their grievances to congress or the Supreme Court. Instead they turned their back on the United States Constitution and rebelled against their own country. The used the circumstance of the election of Lincoln to begin their insurrection. They began to steal everything and anything that wasn't nailed down and seizing territories - and states - in the name of their confederacy. They openly and defiantly declared their separation and dared the unionists to stop them. And they made war against their neighbors and erstwhile allies. They incited and perpetuated a war that literally tore our country apart.
People can and should decide their own fate. There may again come a time when the people are called upon to decide. I would hope that they do it right next time.
I have been asking myself that for a long time. One reason is that the Federal take over of all things to all people is so complete that the thought of powerful state governors and legislatures is a foreign concept. Even though that was the original intent.
No, the Revolution was a Revolution. The Founders didn't pretend there was some unwritten 'penumbra' hidden in deep British law that allowed them to walk away whenever they damn well felt like it.
And most of the Fire-Eating Confederates didn't think there was some clause in the Constitution that allowed them to secede at will, or at least they never pointed that clause out at the time. Most of them had simply deluded themselves into believing the other states wouldn't try to stop them from doing so.
The Revolution was not secession from England. The colonies were chartered by England, but the tax power and local government was devolved from England at that time.
England was attempting to force the colonies to pay taxes levied in England where there was no representation, after taxes had already been levied by colonial governments, and was attempting to use military force to deny them rights like due process, rights to trial, and sent a military patrol to steal firearms. The port of Boston was closed by military action in an attempt to starve the citizens, absent any trial.
No similar unconstitutional acts were committed by the federal government before the insurrection of 1860.
After the insurrection started, the President declared that an insurrection had begun per the law of 1795, and the federal government successfully suppressed it.
The attempted insurrection was decided and found to be illegal in Texas v. White.
You are aware that the Revolution was a war, aren't you? That the Founders had to fight for their freedom because they knew their actions were not legal per the Crown? And that the biggest difference between them and the Confederates is that the Founders valued their cause enough to win while the Confederates wound up throwing in the towel?
That might be an oversimplification, but since it was the final result it's true enough.
As far as an implied secession option in the constitution. Since Southern states were forced to ratify the 14th and 15th amendments to be admitted back in the Union after the war, it certainly seems like they had effectively opted out previously.
Please note my post #107 above.