Cops 'shot 13-year-old boy carrying toy rifle' only 10 SECONDS after first spotting him

dailymail.co.uk ^ | , 26 October 2013 | DAVID MCCORMACK, ASSOCIATED PRESS REPORTER and RYAN GORMAN

[mac_truck]

The preliminary autopsy results detailing the cause of death are consistent with the scenario presented earlier in which the teenager was holding the gun in his left hand facing away from police, and when commanded by police to "drop the gun" instead turned to his right bringing the gun around in front of his body.

The deputy on the right side of the patrol car (and first in the line of fire) would have been in the best position to see the gun barrel as the teen turned around, while the deputy on the left side of the car was at a more acute angle.

Likewise, had there been an orange safety tip on the barrel of the gun the teen was holding, the officer on the right would have been in the best position to see it as the teen turned.

[Uncle Chip]

turned to his right bringing the gun around in front of his body.

You can't be serious. How do you bring an AK47 in front of you if it's in your left hand and your right side is turning toward the front???

That pellet gun was never in a position to be a threat.

In order for it to have been a threat he would have to be facing the police with both hands on the gun but he was shot in the right side with the gun in his left.

[mac_truck]

How do you bring an AK47 in front of you if it's in your left hand and your right side is turning toward the front???

By moving your left arm holding the gun forward and up while grasping the rising barrel with your right hand and moving it from left to center.

-btw If the police are positioned behind the teenager and to his left, turning to his right places his body between the police and the gun and conceals the weapon from their view regardless how he holds it.

You also might consider how 'normal' it is for someone to turn to their right in reaction to sound/stimulis from their left.

And again, absent the orange colored safety tip at the end of the gun barrel, in this scenario it is extremely unlikely the replica gun the teen was holding would be discernible from the real thing.

[Uncle Chip]

And how do you get shot in the right buttocks if you are
in any kind of position to fire??

http://everycitizenasoldier.org/id16.html

Answer — you don’t.

[mac_truck]

It is highly doubtful that the teenager had been trained in proper handling and safety that goes with responsible gun ownership/possession, much less the proper shooting stances as suggested by your link. More likely any impressions he had came from watching television and playing video games.

None of the injuries the teen sustained are inconsistent with the scenario outlined earlier in which the teen turned to his right putting his body between the police and the gun.

And again without the orange safety tip at the end of the barrel, discerning the gun was a replica and not the real deal becomes very difficult.

[Fred Nerks]

I'm an Australian, I came across this thread quite by accident, and as a foreigner, I daresay I could be accused of asking a stupid question...when I ask, so what's wrong with going to what we in Oz would call a hardware store...? I looked at their catalogue, and no where does it indicate that whites aren't welcome, or that the customers catered for are exclusively hispanic:

So, I can't imagine what would have prompted you to ask what a freeper and a friend might have been doing in the parking lot of a Harbor Freight Tools Store. Can you enlighten me?

[Fred Nerks]

Sorry about the double post. Please remove

[Altariel]

Clearly, he warranted termination.

[FBD]

FTA: “Writing under his real name on the forum The Firing Line, Gelhaus wrote under a thread entitled “He’s got a gun! ... A bb gun...” that: It’s going to come down to YOUR ability to articulate to law enforcement and very likely the Court that you were in fear of death or serious bodily injury. I think we keep coming back to this, articulation — your ability to explain why — will be quite significant.”
Read more at: http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/10/erick-gelhaus-andy-lopez-shooting-cop/

[Uncle Chip]

It’s going to come down to YOUR ability to articulate ...

In other words to BS your way out of it.

[FBD]

The bb gun was his friend’s and he was returning it. Seven shots fired... by Eric Gelhaus. You might want to read some of Gelhaus’ written statements posted at an online swat blog (link above. )
“Today’s is the day you may need to kill someone in order to go home. If you cannot turn into the ‘Mean Gene’ for yourself, who will? If you find yourself in an ambush, in the kill zone, you need to turn on the ‘Mean Gene.’”
Read more at: http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/10/erick-gelhaus-andy-lopez-shooting-cop/

[FBD]

Exactly. Check out some of his other comments at the link.. The SWAT blog has blocked or closed all of his (Galhous’) posts.

[Dead Corpse]

It's a pellet gun, which can easily blind someone, and can penetrate a human skull.

Plastic pellets. Airsoft. Might do damage to an eye on a close enough shot but no where near enough force to penetrate a skull at any range.

That breaks two California laws right there.

"Laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding..." "Shall not be infringed".

In 10 seconds, several someones screaming at you will cause you to turn around to see what all the fuss is about. Seeing REAL guns pointed at you will give you an "oh sh*t" moment and cause you to freeze.

Getting riddled with very real bullets for carrying a toy only shows how far off base our "law enforcement" has fallen.

[Uncle Chip]

There is a full on effort to circle the wagons around this guy to protect LE’s right to fire at will anytime they feel threatened — civilians who they are supposed to protect be damned.

BTW the kid was carrying an Airsoft plastic pellet rifle — not even a bb gun — and it is sold without an orange plastic tip.

[zeestephen]

Problem One.....

Airsoft.

No one in my generation has ever heard of Airsoft, unless they have grandchildren who shoot them, and I don't.

When I read “pellet gun” I thought of the pellet gun I owned in the 1960’s, which could definitely penetrate your skull.

Kids actually got killed in those days with pellet guns.

Problem Two.....

Being screamed at.

I think 13 year old kids who live in an area with Hispanic gangs are a lot more savvy than you suggest.

Every 13 year old in the country watches Cop reality shows.

Every 13 year old in the country notices a Cop car.

This young man lived in an area were he personally witnessed Police activity on a routine basis.

He was wearing a hoodie, which concealed his age.

He was carrying a weapon in a public area that, to me, looked completely authentic.

I'm sorry he's dead, but his actions were highly provocative.

I simply don't see how the Police are at fault here.

[mac_truck]

The bb gun was his friend’s and he was returning it.

Actually it was an Airsoft replica AK47 with the bright orange identifying markings removed making it practically indistinguishable from the real thing. Until the police investigation is concluded however it would be speculation to suggest what the kid was doing or where he was going when he encountered police.

Whoever is responsible for that gun however, is most likely going to be sued for a lot of money, and I'll reserve judgment on who that person is until all the facts are known.

As for Deputy Gelhaus, I don't believe he's a bad cop and although his career in law enforcement may be over I'm confident that he will be cleared of wrong doing in this tragic incident.