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Permit not needed for stormwater runoff, court says
AgAlert ^ | October 30, 2013 | Kate Campbell

Posted on 11/02/2013 1:28:31 PM PDT by artichokegrower

Threatened with huge fines and possible imprisonment, West Virginia poultry producer Lois Alt decided to stand up to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in court. In a case with implications for livestock producers in California and nationwide, Alt tried to sort out whether stormwater discharges from her farm actually require a federal permit. Her case won support from the West Virginia and American Farm Bureaus, which intervened in the court case on her behalf.

Last week, Alt won an important decision when the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of West Virginia ruled against EPA, saying that ordinary stormwater from Alt's farmyard is exempt from National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System permit requirements.

Alt filed suit against EPA in June 2012, after the agency threatened her with $37,500 in fines each time stormwater came into contact with dust, feathers or small amounts of manure on the ground outside of her poultry houses as a result of normal farm operations. EPA also threatened separate fines of $37,500 each day if Alt failed to apply for an NPDES permit for such stormwater discharges.

"This lawsuit was about EPA's tactic of threatening farmers with enormous fines in order to make them get permits that are not required by law," American Farm Bureau Federation President Bob Stallman said. "Lois Alt was proud of her farm and her environmental stewardship, and she stood her ground. We're proud to have supported her effort."

Alt operates an eight-house chicken farm with a ventilation system and a covered litter storage shed, a compost shed and feed storage bins.

(Excerpt) Read more at agalert.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: epa; epaoutofcontrol; stormwater
I think American farmers should boycott EPA employees and not sell them food.

Anyhow what is a "water of the United States"?

1 posted on 11/02/2013 1:28:31 PM PDT by artichokegrower
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To: artichokegrower
Anyhow what is a "water of the United States"?

Amongst other things, rainwater, if you store it without a permit, you can be charged, if you let it run off your land you can be charged.

Any questions?

2 posted on 11/02/2013 1:32:09 PM PDT by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: artichokegrower

” threatening farmers with enormous fines in order to make them get permits that are not required by law,”

That is the EXACT definition of FELONY EXTORTION.


3 posted on 11/02/2013 1:38:25 PM PDT by eyeamok
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To: artichokegrower
"She didn't want other farmers to be bullied by the EPA," Quist said. "She stood up for herself, but she also stood up for others. This is a terrific {temporary} win for farmers and ranchers in West Virginia and nationwide."

You can bet the farm that the EPA zealots are not going to let this pass.

Before the end of Lord Obama’s term there will be a new rule out of the EPA to force these farmers to get the permits that these petty bureaucratic dictators want.

4 posted on 11/02/2013 1:39:11 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: artichokegrower
The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Ayn Rand - "Atlas Shrugged"

The EPA has determined that in order to prevent pollution, it has authority to criminalize anything that might become pollution even before such pollution occurs. It has also determined that it is essential to do this before any legal proceeding has occurred. It will continue to do this until it is stopped. To date it has increased its scope far beyond any limit envisioned from its establishment.

Note: Carbon Dioxide has been ruled a pollutant by the EPA.
All animals live by giving off Carbon Dioxide.

5 posted on 11/02/2013 1:52:03 PM PDT by SES1066 (To expect courteous government is insanity!)
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To: artichokegrower

I’ve heard of chicken-shit laws, but this is the real deal.


6 posted on 11/02/2013 1:57:06 PM PDT by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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To: SES1066
Start with putting a plug in all
federal government employee orifices with epoxy as a test, then if proven discharge free move to state then local orifi.
7 posted on 11/02/2013 2:04:14 PM PDT by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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To: artichokegrower
We know very modest producers who are being mugged, buggered and bankrupted by the EPA and FDA. Their #1 priority seems to be the regulatory extermination of small farmers.

Stalin did it with police, dogs and barbed wire... while literally millions died in the Ukrainian Holodomor of 1932-1933. Obama...?

I hate this tyranny.

8 posted on 11/02/2013 2:08:36 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Frankly.)
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To: artichokegrower
EPA also threatened separate fines of $37,500 each day if Alt failed to apply for an NPDES permit for such stormwater discharges.

Sooooo..... pay the government some money and they'll let you do what they don't want people to do.

Sounds like a bribe.....

9 posted on 11/02/2013 2:16:51 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: SES1066

All plants live by breathing this “pollution.” And without plants, we all DIE.


10 posted on 11/02/2013 2:18:31 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
We know very modest producers who are being mugged, buggered and bankrupted by the EPA and FDA. Their #1 priority seems to be the regulatory extermination of small farmers.

Extend this to all government bureaucracies and their denizens. It is a simple fact of life, nobody likes to work harder than they have to and that to a bureaucrat there is a very real difference between a small business/farmer/retailer etc. and their big brothers.

An inspector goes to Megacorp to see about a possible violation. He is met and escorted by an employee whose only job that day is to satisfy him. It is a government cog meeting an industrial cog, bureaucrat to bureaucrat. GovGuy gets to talk, have a cup of whatever, discuss the problem in a comfortable environment and leaves that day having done his job with satisfaction. Makes no difference to either person if the problem is there, for the most part neither of their jobs is on the line or in danger.

Contrast this with the same problem at MikeInc. GovGuy goes there and there is nobody who can be assigned to answer his questions. It is a small shop with everybody wearing more than one hat. There is no place for GovGuy to check on documentation and nobody to understand his take on the RULES! Any violations he finds could mean the end of the business and GovGuy would just feel terrible about that. But that is his job so he does it, after all nobody should go into business without knowing all of the rules, right?

So, which size business do you think government likes the best?

11 posted on 11/02/2013 2:48:10 PM PDT by SES1066 (To expect courteous government is insanity!)
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To: piytar
All plants live by breathing this “pollution.” And without plants, we all DIE.

Don't tell me, tell the EPA, I'm sure that they will listen to you very carefully! Please don't mention my name or alias, then again what am I saying, the NSA can get that to them in a heartbeat. Bye-the-bye, which group has a greater membership in the ranks of the EPA, the combined total of (Republicans, Libertarians and NRA) OR The Sierra Club?

12 posted on 11/02/2013 2:54:08 PM PDT by SES1066 (To expect courteous government is insanity!)
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To: USMCPOP

+1.


13 posted on 11/02/2013 3:00:56 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: artichokegrower

Ya know, one of these days, some rancher or farmer is going to decide that fighting in court with these tyrants isn’t worth the time.

Instead, they will carry out their own form of justice on these bastards. And they will deserve what they get.


14 posted on 11/02/2013 3:05:08 PM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal the 16th Amendment)
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To: SES1066

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them.
***********************************************************
Well as long as we have this administration there should not be a shortage of criminals.


15 posted on 11/02/2013 3:32:41 PM PDT by ruesrose (The Anchor Holds)
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To: SES1066
Note: Carbon Dioxide has been ruled a pollutant by the EPA. All animals live by giving off Carbon Dioxide.

And all vegetation lives by inhaling Carbon Dioxide.

Hmmm... almost as if it was planned that way from the beginning.

16 posted on 11/02/2013 3:37:11 PM PDT by upchuck (I've got maternity care via Obamacare! Now, if I could just figure out how a male gets pregnant...)
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To: artichokegrower

This is a very important ruling with great implications for reeling in runaway governmental agencies. Provided it is decided this way where it ultimately will end up.


17 posted on 11/02/2013 3:38:42 PM PDT by John W (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: SES1066

And all leftists give off carbon dioxide. What did Saul Alinsky say? Oh yea, make the enemy live by their own rules.


18 posted on 11/02/2013 3:52:30 PM PDT by MtnClimber (Up is down, wrong is right, 0bama care is cheap.)
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To: SES1066

Oh I wasn’t telling you. You my FRiend clearly know. I was telling the lurkers. BTW Hi, NSA pukes...


19 posted on 11/02/2013 3:56:42 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: unixfox

“Instead, they will carry out their own form of justice on these bastards. And they will deserve what they get.”

At one time, revenooers would disappear after venturing into Appalachia, and no one ever saw anything.


20 posted on 11/02/2013 4:01:34 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: SES1066

Breathing has finally been made illegal. We’re all criminals now. We exude plant food and it turns out to be agin the law.


21 posted on 11/02/2013 4:04:11 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (We're At That Awkward Stage: It's too late to vote them out, too early to shoot the bastards.)
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To: unixfox

The answer is to infiltrate the EPA with conservative republicans.


22 posted on 11/02/2013 4:13:21 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG ...)
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To: SES1066

So the lesson for MikeInc. and any small farm operation is to set up Procedures and Training for when any gov’t official arrives. All staff needs to know who in supervision/management is immediately called and the location where the gov’t official is to wait until that person arrives.


23 posted on 11/02/2013 4:20:33 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG ...)
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To: artichokegrower
There shouldn't even bea Feerdal EPA.
24 posted on 11/02/2013 4:42:26 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: artichokegrower
U.S. District Court for the Northern District of West Virginia ruled against EPA,

Not to worry the EPA has lots of our money to spend appealing this decision to a higher court.

25 posted on 11/02/2013 4:46:27 PM PDT by Fzob (Jesus + anything = nothing, Jesus + nothing = everything)
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To: All
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26 posted on 11/02/2013 4:56:36 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: Domestic Church

“The answer is to infiltrate the EPA with conservative republicans.”

One of the many failures of George W. Bush was not reshaping the bureaucracy. Democrat Presidents do not make this mistake. Whenever they are in power they do their best to insert ideologues in positions of authority in every agency.


27 posted on 11/02/2013 5:41:02 PM PDT by Soul of the South (Yesterday is gone. Today will be what we make of it.)
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To: artichokegrower

In I believe Seattle, you can be arrested for catching rainwater in a bucket.


28 posted on 11/02/2013 8:36:06 PM PDT by Spok ("What're you going to believe-me or your own eyes?" -Marx (Groucho))
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To: artichokegrower

Fining folks for “Acts of God” which were one of the few areas normally exempted (shovel your walk and someone slips and it’s on you:::leave it Au-natural after God dumped snow on it and you are in the clear).


29 posted on 11/03/2013 3:19:12 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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