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To: Talisker
In this case, it proposes that the difference between the sale of an already produced item, versus the sale of an item produced by personal labor, is involuntary servitude.

It is a matter of "free exercise of religion" versus "public accomodation" (which finds its roots in the 14th Amendment...as implemented by the Civil Rights Act of 1964).

If the baker will not serve a fudgepacker, period, then there could be a case where "public accomodation" requirements were not met (particularly if "fudgepackers" were a protected class in a state). That's the first permutation.

Another permutation would be if a baker refused to do wedding cakes period, end of story. That permutation should be pretty much open and shut.

The real interesting one that I'd love to see taken up is if the baker has no problem serving fudgepackers, but won't do a wedding cake for a fudgepacker, citing free exercise of religion as a rationale. Particularly if the baker can document where he's served fudgepackers for other purposes. That would be a good case to try to move up to the SCOTUS for a ruling (which would be a crapshoot). The question being if the proprietor is required to have his free exercise of religion stomped on in order to provide a public accommodation...and when he is willing to accommodate that particular class, but not for that particular event. I would love to see Landmark Legal, the Beckett Fund, or similar take on such a case.

What I think would be interesting is if the proprietor was to put out a notice saying that they will not, regardless of the "sexual preference" of the person requesting the service, bake cakes for homosexual weddings.

Then what? They are explicitly saying that they'll serve anybody, but won't do that particular service.

17 posted on 01/09/2014 3:50:04 AM PST by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

I don’t believe in the concept of “public accommodation”. I realize it is the de jure policy (via 1964 CRA), but in my view, the 14th Amendment applies only to actions of the federal government, and the state governments.


20 posted on 01/09/2014 4:08:58 AM PST by oblomov
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To: markomalley
What's pathetic is that the baker is being persecuted because he refused to bake a cake for a "gay marriage" in a state that doesn't even recognize "gay marriage" as legal.

When I read a story like this I start to realize how understandable it is for people to turn to brutal measures to rid their country of depraved freaks.

23 posted on 01/09/2014 4:23:44 AM PST by Alberta's Child ("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
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To: markomalley

What if an atheist baker refused to bake a Christmas cake? Or a Jewish restaurant refused to serve a take out dinner to a KKK party celebrating the Holocaust? Do lawyers even use these arguments?


26 posted on 01/09/2014 4:48:53 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: markomalley
Then what? They are explicitly saying that they'll serve anybody, but won't do that particular service.

The problem is that behavior is treated as race, and your suggestion would be seen as saying "no blacks served." But in the application at issue here means a Jewish baker must bake a cake for KKK party celebrating a pork fest, or the Holocaust as said. They just need to assert aversion to pork is due to an (elusive) gene.

30 posted on 01/09/2014 5:01:30 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: markomalley

Another distinction is that “public accomodations” typically refer to restaurants and motels/hotels.

People, as a general rule, need to sleep at least once a day and eat several times a day. Every day.

Wedding cakes, on the other hand, are a once-in-a-great-while item, with a multi-month lead time; there’s plenty of time to look for alternative suppliers.

In this case, as others have mentioned, the “happy couple” probably went through a long list of bakers before they found one who didn’t want to make them a cake, so they’d have something to complain about.


62 posted on 01/09/2014 6:47:33 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: markomalley

Your language is over the top and offensive and distracting. What do you call lesbians? Do you also replace the word “nazi” with “jew killers” every time you say it? It’s a matter of maturity here. Your contempt is acknowledged. But I could hardly see your legal argument past all the fudgepacking (although I must admit you then saying a Suprem Court case would be a “crapshoot” made me laugh involuntarily... dammit.).


102 posted on 01/09/2014 7:36:04 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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