Posted on 03/12/2014 10:17:35 PM PDT by kristinn
Engine Data Suggest Malaysia Flight Was Airborne Long After Radar Disappearance, U.S. Investigators Say
Updated March 13, 2014 12:50 a.m. ET
U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details, raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.
Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours...
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
Smells like bull sh— to me. What is the real story!!!
transponders off. how did that happen?
“Why has Boeing been so quiet about their data for so many daze?”
Boeing has a policy never to discuss ongoing investigations outside the company.
Pakistan for sure. Thailand.
I don't think this article is behind the paywall. The whole thing came up for me anyway.
If the pilot/hijacker turned off the transponder and took the plane down to the deck, land-based radar would not see it, right?
There’s nothing unusual about those two bursts of data - they would be expected.
Malaysia Airlines disputes the account of more data received. They claim to have received nothing beyond what you cited.
WRONG!
Unnamed sources with unnamed ties to the ‘investigation’ do not a fact make.
Local news said
“The Wall Street Journal newspaper quoted U.S. investigators on Thursday as saying they suspected the plane remained in the air for about four hours after its last confirmed contact, citing data from the plane’s engines that are automatically transmitted to the ground as part of a routine maintenance program.
Hishammuddin said the government had contacted Boeing and Rolls Royce, the engine manufacturer, and both said the last engine data was received at 1:07 a.m., around 23 minutes before the plane lost contact.”
neither Boeing nor Rolls has said other wise. The ACARS is NOT a black box mime. It gives bursts of data from crucial flight times (take off, climb, descend, land). Other than that it is a monitor that would send IF a mechanical failure or error occurred that needed ground attention at landing.
the fact that the writer is UNAWARE of how ACARS operates is the first clue he has nothing
Okay.
Let's just say they wouldn't anywhere that I was in charge.
Don't think that would be a secret for six days, though.
I can only surmise that whatever disabled the plane affected the transponder...
FROM THE ARTICLE.... based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co. BA -1.57% 777’s engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program.
One flaw in your theory is who turned off the transponders?
Even if you don’t subscribe to any ONSTAR services..the unit continues to operate in your vehicle. So it could be that both Boeing and RR were getting the reports, just not providing their feedback to MAL.
This was my "conspiracy" hypothesis, a game which is many of us play, but I was stunned when I read this was being considered.
I wonder how many Air Strips within four hours can land and hide a 777. I wonder if the US is checking for jet fuel going to strange places...
Re: Payne Stewart crash and depressurization
“The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has several levels of investigation, of which the highest is a “major” investigation. Because of the extraordinary circumstances in this crash, a major investigation was performed.[5]
The NTSB determined that:
The probable cause of this accident was incapacitation of the flight crew members as a result of their failure to receive supplemental oxygen following a loss of cabin pressurization, for undetermined reasons.
The Board added a commentary regarding the possible reasons why the crew did not obtain supplemental oxygen:
Following the depressurization, the pilots did not receive supplemental oxygen in sufficient time and/or adequate concentration to avoid hypoxia and incapacitation. The wreckage indicated that the oxygen bottle pressure regulator/shutoff valve was open on the accident flight. Further, although one flight crew mask hose connector was found in the wreckage disconnected from its valve receptacle (the other connector was not recovered), damage to the recovered connector and both receptacles was consistent with both flight crew masks having been connected to the airplane’s oxygen supply lines at the time of impact. In addition, both flight crew mask microphones were found plugged into their respective crew microphone jacks. Therefore, assuming the oxygen bottle contained an adequate supply of oxygen, supplemental oxygen should have been available to both pilots’ oxygen masks.
[A] possible explanation for the failure of the pilots to receive emergency oxygen is that their ability to think and act decisively was impaired because of hypoxia before they could don their oxygen masks. No definitive evidence exists that indicates the rate at which the accident flight lost its cabin pressure; therefore, the Safety Board evaluated conditions of both rapid and gradual depressurization.
If there had been a breach in the fuselage (even a small one that could not be visually detected by the in-flight observers) or a seal failure, the cabin could have depressurized gradually, rapidly, or even explosively. Research has shown that a period of as little as 8 seconds without supplemental oxygen following rapid depressurization to about 30,000 feet (9,100 m) may cause a drop in oxygen saturation that can significantly impair cognitive functioning and increase the amount of time required to complete complex tasks.
A more gradual decompression could have resulted from other possible causes, such as a smaller leak in the pressure vessel or a closed flow control valve. Safety Board testing determined that a closed flow control valve would cause complete depressurization to the airplane’s flight altitude over a period of several minutes. However, without supplemental oxygen, substantial adverse effects on cognitive and motor skills would have been expected soon after the first clear indication of decompression (the cabin altitude warning), when the cabin altitude reached 10,000 feet (3,000 m) (which could have occurred in about 30 seconds).
Investigations of other accidents in which flight crews attempted to diagnose a pressurization problem or initiate emergency pressurization instead of immediately donning oxygen masks following a cabin altitude alert have revealed that, even with a relatively gradual rate of depressurization, pilots have rapidly lost cognitive or motor abilities to effectively troubleshoot the problem or don their masks shortly thereafter. In this accident, the flight crew’s failure to obtain supplemental oxygen in time to avoid incapacitation could be explained by a delay in donning oxygen masks of only a few seconds in the case of an explosive or rapid decompression or a slightly longer delay in the case of a gradual decompression.
In summary, the Safety Board was unable to determine why the flight crew could not, or did not, receive supplemental oxygen in sufficient time and/or adequate concentration to avoid hypoxia and incapacitation.[1]”
Correct. But that deck would be too low for the 777 to fly for a long distance. That deck could be 50 feet anywhere near a radar station, the maximum speed becomes less than 325 knots, the autopilot may not engage, persons along the flight path would notice, alarms would sound at a high altitude aircraft with no transponder, a hijack situation is assumed, etc.
Also, satellite communications relaying health information would give away their position. Boeing center would know of any variations from normal, including the transponder being turned off.
US defense satellites track radio communications and all aircraft are tracked, so should anyone have alerted that an aircraft was missing then all sensors would be directed to finding it. I highly, very highly, doubt no one knows what happened. Boeing, DHS, US Air Force, the airline, several key US companies that provide airline/aircraft services, all would be intent on tracking/finding that flight. We’re talking about a $300 million asset plus cost of losing lives.
It is possible for someone with all this knowledge to steal that airplane but it would still be damned difficult to do. It would take incredible planning to fly it away from any defense aircraft intercept zone.
Here is something people seem to not know: A transponder simply returns a signal encoded with the airplanes transponder code the pilot enters and the altitude, but only once a radar signal is received by the transponder. No radar, no transponder output. They could turn off that transponder but ever 6 seconds or so the radar would ping the airplane anyway. It would be immediately known that the transponder was off. It can happen but voice communications would then be taken to contact the pilot. Most Secondary Surveillance Radar (SSR), the radar used to ping transponders, usually only works out to about 150 miles. It is very possible that this flight was well past civil air traffic control radar range. Any radar reaching out to where that flight disappeared is probably military in nature. Those military radars can track that airplane near the ground and for a very long range.
//who can cloak?
who can refuel in air...cloaked.//
Klingons?
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