Posted on 03/13/2014 11:38:06 AM PDT by mandaladon
I agree, you just may be correct.
Looks like it. I don’t think anyone was flying that plane after the transponders went off.
Payne Stewart.
Great guy.
A short tutorial, from a 35 year controller.
In aviation, there are two types of radar, 'primary' and 'secondary'. In today's civil environment, primary is seldom used, as it is unreliable and costly to maintain.
Primary radar is a display of transmitted energy that has been reflected back to the antenna. It appears as a 'blip' or 'blob', with some variation in brightness. It has no altitude information. A small target at short range would appear to be the same size as a large target at moderate range. Military radars are quite powerful primary radars, as only a kamakazi would fly into combat with a transponder.
Secondary radar consists of a ground transmitter sending a radio signal out, asking "hey, anybody out there?". The aircraft transponder receives the signal and replies with a four digit code and his altitude. The ground receiver then, via computer, displays the target on the display in the correct position, along with the altitude.
The aircraft transponder is also part of the collision avoidance system, but that is part of another tutorial.
That is an absurd statement, absolutely incorrect, and inconceivable that any pilot would ever make it.
They would never be able to sell a single one if that were true. It's like requiring all passengers to wear a parachute.
Perhaps Tom Baum, a Learjet pilot instructor, who told that to CNN was a lier. I don’t know, simply quoted the article.
liar
That is an absurd statement, absolutely incorrect, and inconceivable that any pilot would ever make it.
They would never be able to sell a single one if that were true. It's like requiring all passengers to wear a parachute.
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Another source with this claim:
Flying the Classic Learjet: A Pilot Training Manual for the Learjet 35A/36A
Aircraft with ZMR 100 series
Crew Masks - One crew member must wear oxygen mask around his neck.
So the military class radar would have known exactly what happened to this plane.
And that it didn’t automatically ‘explode’ when the transponder ceased to transmit. Ie, they didn’t see the pieces on radar as they fell thousands of feet to the (presumably) ocean.
We may never know exactly what happened. Looking for it in the Andaman Sea is indication that whatever happened likely wasn’t ‘sudden’.
According to the Limitations section of the Learjet Model 35/36 Aircraft Flight Manual (AFM), flight crew and passenger oxygen masks are not approved for use above 40,000 feet cabin altitude.11 A "warning" in this section states that "passenger masks are intended for use during an emergency descent to an altitude not requiring supplemental oxygen." The manual also indicates that "passenger masks will not provide sufficient oxygen for prolonged operation above 34,000 feet cabin altitude. Prolonged operation above 25,000 feet cabin altitude with passengers on board is not recommended." In addition, the manual indicates that, above FL 250 (Flight Level 25,000 feet), in aircraft with ZMR-series oxygen masks, one flight crewmember must wear the oxygen mask around the neck; in aircraft with 6600214-series oxygen masks, the masks must be in the quick donning position.12 Further, the manual indicates that, above FL 410, the pilot, copilot, and passengers must wear oxygen masks. The maximum operating altitude for the airplane is 45,000 feet.http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/fulltext/AAB0001.html...
12 In accordance with 14 CFR 25.1477(c)(2), flight crewmembers must be able to don the oxygen mask within 5 seconds for the mask to be considered quick donning.
Ahhh....now I get it. He/you are referring to an early system that is no longer installed. It even required passengers to use masks at high altitudes. Can you imagine how long the chairman of the board would put up with that?
FYI, per a friend of mine who flew Lear’s for a living, they were only required to don them above flight level 410, above 40,000 feet.
The reason being there is so little time to get the mask on AND handle the emergency before you pass out when the air is that thin.
Burj Khalifa?
yep. it’s not like boiling a frog, especially on commercial aircraft.
Very true.
B-1’s and BUFFs ran sorties over Afghanistan from Diego Garcia.
Currently situation unknown.
FWIW, 15 minutes to descend from 35,000 feet to a breathable atmosphere is a very gentle descent by emergency standards. That’s a little over 2000’ per minute.
My buddy who flew Lear’s for a living until retiring spoke of his one and only ‘sudden’ decompression: he was flying a medical patient from the Bahamas up to NY. They were up there over 40,000’ ASL. Some sort of air pressure valve that pushes compressed air thru a transfer fitting failed, and the cabin air was rapidly escaping.
They had to rapidly descend to a FL so the patient could breathe, but that put them in a tough spot due to the increased fuel consumption at lower altitudes.
He said they landed in VA with a little less than 10 minutes of fuel remaining, FAR into his 45 minute reserve.
Yikers.
And yeah, he already had his mask oni since they were flying well over 40,000 feet ASL.
OK, I promise. That business with Stewart was a real shame. I always thought he was one of the classiest individuals on the tour.
So, do the oxygen masks in a pressurized cabin only drop during a sudden depressurization or will they also drop when the oxygen level in the cabin drops below a danger level? Having only ever flown non-pressurized small craft, I never really gave it much thought other than keeping my altitude under 10K.
It is partially correct, so fear not.
a friend of mine flew LEAR’s for years. Above 40,000’ they were indeed required to not just have the masks around their necks, but actually fully fitted.
This was true across the companies that he rented out to.
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