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To: betty boop
If Nature is an exclusively material system, then how did Nature get "smart enuf" to make a selection?

This is an animated GIF of the changes in a Peruvian river's course between 1984-2012. How did Nature get "smart enuf" to know where the new course should be? Nature "selected" a new course for the river based on "random" environmental factors (not really random, of course, if we thoroughly understood all the processes). The river is like the relentless flow of reproduction; nature "selects" its direction, but in no more conscious or goal-oriented a manner than it does the river's path.

How does the interaction of two random systems evolve into highly organized and stable DNA, which is the antithesis of "random?"

Well, first, I don't think you need the second system--natural selection--to get to DNA. That just determines which DNA keeps getting passed on. Second, I think an answer might be "we don't fully know yet." But of course, people are hard at work trying to figure it out, and in any case "we don't know yet" isn't the same as "it can't."

Thanks for your response.

121 posted on 04/14/2014 10:46:26 AM PDT by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical; betty boop; freedumb2003; Moseley; Alamo-Girl; Heartlander; metmom; ...
Ha Ha Thats Very Funny!

The fluid dynamics of increased velocity, deepening and bank erosion on the outside of bends, along with slowing, silt deposition (shallowing) and bank building on the inside of stream bends is very well understood. So much so, in fact, that, given the daily flow volume, that meandering action can be modeled, predicted and drawn with high precision.

No "intelligence" or "purpose" on the part of the river is required (or, indeed, exists.)

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The function of a river is to transport water from its source/inflow points to the sea. IF there were any "selection" at work to "evolve" the river to a higher functional state, we would see rivers inexorably straightening their courses over time.

Never happened. Never will.

At one point in your .GIF, you can see the inevitable effect of a "cutoff", wherein the river "punches through" a narrowed meander -- leaving the course temporarily "evolved upward" (straighter at that point).

But, then the second law of thermodynamics takes its inevitable effect -- and the course of the river "DEVOLVES" back to its sluggish, meandering state.

Always has. Always will.

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Those who tout the theory of (unobserved) "upward evolution" very conveniently ignore the more powerful (observable) opposing effects of Entropy (aka "devolution or downward evolution").

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"Upward evolution" is a no-win game. The Second Law makes it so.

124 posted on 04/14/2014 3:37:40 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
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