Mia Love Clinches GOP Nomination for Congress

Roll call ^ | April 26, 2014

[AuH2ORepublican]

Matheson retired because he knew he would lose a 2014 rematch against Love (he only barely won in 2012, so it was clear that the jig was up). I don’t think that even Matheson believes that he could win a U.S. Senate election in Utah. The UT-04 is 5% less conservative and Republican than UT as a whole.

As for running for governor, I guess anything is possible, but it would take exigent circumstances for any Democrat (even Matheson) to be competitive in a gubernatorial election in UT.

[Tennessee Nana]

it would take exigent circumstances for any Democrat (even Matheson) to be competitive in a gubernatorial election in UT.
_________________________________

Why ???

Matheson’s own father was a Democrat gov in Utah ...

and his brother ran for gov but lost to Huntsman..

and there have been several others..

and during a time there was a higher percentage of Mormons than there is now..

Matheson comes from an important Mormon family ...

that counts for more in Utah than the political party..

[Impy]

Nana, the Republicans are Mormons too, almost every politician in the state is, Love is, Governor Herbert is, Senator Lee is, so what the hell are you talking about?

Far be it from me to get in the way of some good Mormon bashing but you aren’t making much sense.

Anyway Utah is less willing to elect rats than it used to be. Matheson’s daddy’s last election was in 1980, that was a long time ago. Rat governors used to be common, but they haven’t even come close since then, topping out in the low 40’s with their strongest candidates.

They haven’t won a Senate race since 1970. And they haven’t won any statewide race at all since then Attorney General Jan Graham was reelected in 1996. Attorney General is an office the rats usually do well with in most states, probably because of all the trial lawyer money. Graham didn’t even try to run for higher office.

If Herbert doesn’t run again I think Matheson would have some shot at an open seat for Governor, but he wouldn’t be the favorite.

I have a very hard time seeing him beating Mike Lee for a Senate seat in an election were the democrats will probably be desperately trying to regain the Senate majority that they hopefully will be losing in about 6 months. Harry Reid may be a dreaded Mormon but Utahans don’t want his party in charge of the Senate.

[Elsie]

(Of course, she’d make a better President NOW than the current occupant...)

DUH!!

But she'll have to get in line behind ME!

Mom and dad WERE born in this country!

[Elsie]

Good thing she isn't anti-Catholic

Sorry; but anti-Catholicism is one of the foundation stones of Mormonism.

---

[Elsie]

You didn’t enlighten us all about Tennessee’s “finest”...

LOOK!!!

Over THERE!

[Elsie]

So many Ad Hominems; so little time.

---

Logical fallacies hide the truth, so pointing them out is very useful.

 

1. Ad Hominem - Attacking the individual instead of the argument.
Example: You are so stupid your argument couldn't possibly be true.
Example: I figured that you couldn't possibly get it right, so I ignored your comment.

 

2. Appeal to Force - Telling the hearer that something bad will happen to him if he does not accept the argument.
Example: If you don't want to get beaten up, you will agree with what I say.
Example: Convert or die.
 
3. Appeal to Pity - Urging the hearer to accept the argument based upon an appeal to emotions, sympathy, etc.
Example: You owe me big time because I really stuck my neck out for you.
Example: Oh come on, I've been sick. That's why I missed the deadline.

 

4. Appeal to the Popular - Urging the hearer to accept a position because a majority of people hold to it.
Example: The majority of people like soda. Therefore, soda is good.
Example: Everyone else is doing it. Why shouldn't you?

 

5. Appeal to Tradition - Trying to get someone to accept something because it has been done or believed for a long time.
Example: This is the way we've always done it. Therefore, it is the right way.
Example: The Catholic church's tradition demonstrates that this doctrine is true.
 
6. Begging the Question - Assuming the thing to be true that you are trying to prove. It is circular.
Example: God exists because the Bible says so. The Bible is inspired. Therefore, we know that God exists.
Example: I am a good worker because Frank says so. How can we trust Frank? Simple: I will vouch for him.

 

7. Cause and Effect - Assuming that the effect is related to a cause because the events occur together.
Example: When the rooster crows, the sun rises. Therefore, the rooster causes the sun to rise.
Example: When the fuel light goes on in my car, I soon run out of gas. Therefore, the fuel light causes my car to run out of gas.
 
8. Circular Argument - See Begging the Question
Fallacy of Division - Assuming that what is true of the whole is true for the parts.
Example: That car is blue. Therefore, its engine is blue.
Example: Your family is weird. That means that you are weird too.

 

9. Fallacy of Equivocation - Using the same term in an argument in different places but the word has different meanings.
Example: A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Therefore, a bird is worth more than President Bush.
Example: Evolution states that one species can change into another. We see that cars have evolved into different styles. Therefore, since evolution is a fact in cars, it is true in species.

 

10. False Dilemma - Giving two choices when in actuality there could be more choices possible.
Example: You either did knock the glass over or you did not. Which is it? (Someone else could have knocked the glass over)
Example: Do you still beat your wife?

 

11. Genetic Fallacy - Attempting to endorse or disqualify a claim because of the origin or irrelevant history of the claim.
Example: The Nazi regime developed the Volkswagen Beetle. Therefore, you should not buy a VW Beetle because of who started it.
Example: Frank just got out of jail last year; since it was his idea to start the hardware store, I can't trust him.

 

12. Guilt by Association - Rejecting an argument or claim because the person proposing it likes someone whom is disliked by another.
Example: Hitler liked dogs. Therefore dogs are bad.
Example: Your friend is a thief. Therefore, I cannot trust you.

 

13. Non Sequitur - Comments or information that do not logically follow from a premise or the conclusion.
Example: We know why it rained today: because I washed my car.
Example: I don't care what you say. We don't need any more bookshelves. As long as the carpet is clean, we are fine.

 

14. Poisoning the Well - Presenting negative information about a person before he/she speaks so as to discredit the person's argument.
Example: Frank is pompous, arrogant, and thinks he knows everything. So, let's hear what Frank has to say about the subject.
Example: Don't listen to him because he is a loser.

 

15. Red Herring - Introducing a topic not related to the subject at hand.
Example: I know your car isn't working right. But, if you had gone to the store one day earlier, you'd not be having problems.
Example: I know I forgot to deposit the check into the bank yesterday. But, nothing I do pleases you.

 

16. Special Pleading (double standard) - Applying a standard to another that is different from a standard applied to oneself.
Example: You can't possibly understand menopause because you are a man.
Example: Those rules don't apply to me since I am older than you.

 

17. Straw Man Argument - Producing an argument about a weaker representation of the truth and attacking it.
Example: The government doesn't take care of the poor because it doesn't have a tax specifically to support the poor.
Example: We know that evolution is false because we did not evolve from monkeys.

 

18. Category Mistake - Attributing a property to something that could not possibly have that property. Attributing facts of one kind are attributed to another kind. Attributing to one category that which can only be properly attributed to another.

Example: Blue sleeps faster than Wednesday.
Example: Saying logic is transcendental is like saying cars would exist if matter didn't.

[PapaBear3625]

...against tax-funded abortion... Against or For the OTHER kind?

Personally, I think it's sufficient that she's in favor of any sort of reduction in government support for abortion, which is a position that is very much more pro-life than her Dem challenger.

Your mileage may vary. I won't try to convince you that she's OK, that's probably something you are unpersuadable about as long as she's a Mormon.

[Elsie]

Psst...

Update your homepage; as you’re only 72 there...

[Elsie]

Watch out; or YOU’ll be called a Hateful BIGOT; too!

[AuH2ORepublican]

Why? Because it’s the freaking 2010s, not the 1980s, that’s why. Have you not noticed that it is much harder for Democrats to win any office in Utah? (Or Tennessee, for that matter, although it is not at Utah levels.)

As for being a Mormon counting more than being a Republican in UT, well, maybe that’s so, but it would only matter if the GOP nominates a non-Mormon for the governorship, which is not going to happen.

Jim Matheson, with his powerful name, long incumbency and “moderate” profile and voting record, only managed to beat newcomer Mia Love (who is a convert to the LDS church and does not come from an old Mormon family, and is descended from Haitian immigrants, not Brigham Young) by 0.2% in a congressional district that is about 6% less Republican than the state as a whole. As a non-incumbent running statewide, Matheson would need the GOP nominee to be extraordinarily weak and/or controversial to be even slightly competitive. The last six gubernatorial elections in UT have seen the Republican win by 40.6% (in 2012), 32.2% (in the 2010 special election), 57.9% (in 2008), 16.4% (in 2004, with Matheson’s brother not even being able to make it competitive despite his “magical” name (”Scott Matheson, Jr.” is as good as it gets for UT Democrats), not having any liberal votes that could be exploited (unlike Congressman Jim) and it being an open-seat contest), 14% (in 2000, when Democrat Congressman Bill Orton, far more conservative than Jim Matheson, was able to keep the margin relatively unembarrassing for Democrats), and 52% in 1996. Scott Matheson, Sr. was last elected governor 34 years ago, back when Democrats always got elected governor of UT, and Jim won’t have access to a time machine.

[Elsie]

Well Elsie, bout time you showed up with your king-size bag of hatred!

Strange that you'd reply to #39, and yet skip over #38.

{Perhaps 2 years in SLC gave you and affinity for abiding false teaching.)

[Elsie]

Perhaps I have mis-judged you...

Well Elsie, bout time you showed up with your king-size bag of MORMON QUOTES

[AuH2ORepublican]

I guess I shouldn’t have taken so long to write my response ....

[Elsie]

Sleep in front of your computer; like I do...

[Elsie]

and his brother ran for gov but lost to Huntsman..

Speaking of...

Office of First President & Living Prophet®:

November 8, 2012

Fellow MORMON Freeper Christians!!

 

I must apologize and ask for forgiveness from you all.

 

As you know, we at Headquarters NEVER tell you pew warmers how to vote. It says so right in our press releases. Anyway, we were ALL thrilled to the max when there were two – TWO! – MORMONs being touted in the primaries: Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman.

 

Talk in our upper chambers high above SLC was how our gods were favoring us with these men; who had prepared their entire lives for an opportunity to save this Nation; which so badly needs guidance: OUR guidance even! So naturally, I and the other twelve analyzed and discussed the situation.

 

Consensus was that the voters should listen to the inner urging and vote for the one they wanted; but that seemed to be leaving WAY too much to chance.

 

I decided, that since I am the ONLY man on earth that can hear GOD’s voice, that I would pray for wisdom and clarity in the matter.

 

I hadn’t used the fleece in a while, so I questioned GOD with a test. A paper, with Romney on one side and Huntsman on the other was to be placed by the air conditioning vent high above my desk in the sumptuous office the Full Tithers have provided.

When the air would kick in later in the evening, while I was home, the paper would be blown down and whomever GOD wanted would then be visible on the upper surface.

 

As you can probably guess, when I came in the next day, the paper had landed on my desk, with Mitt’s name on top.

Last night, I was staying late, praying to GOD about how it was even possible that Mitt lost, when the janitorial cleaning crew came in. Being surprised to find me here, they apologized for interrupting me. I said to them, “It mattereth not, as I was about to leave anyway.”

 

As I was going out the door, the foreman of the crew just happened to mention that my office is ALWAYS so neat and tiny, never anything out of place, that they barely have to do anything to tidy up. Then one of the sweepers said, “Except that time in the spring when we came in to clean and found a paper with Huntman’s name on the floor by your desk. We put it back on your desk and left.

 

 

Tommy M.

 

PS Keep praying that Huntsman will add an “H” to his name. Jon looks so dang effeminate!

 

Onward to 2016!!!

[Tennessee Nana]

Jim Matheson, with his powerful name, long incumbency and “moderate” profile and voting record, only managed to beat newcomer Mia Love (who is a convert to the LDS church and does not come from an old Mormon family, and is descended from Haitian immigrants, not Brigham Young) by 0.2% in a congressional district that is about 6% less Republican than the state as a whole
______________________________________________

Youre forgetting that there was another candidate on that ballot who got that extra 2.6% of the votes..

the guy was a Libertarian making him closer to Matheson than to the Conservative Mia Love...

Most of those votes would have gone to Matheson making the spread 51% to 48/49% for Mia..

looking at the results that way doesn’t make it such a close race..

Plus in 2002 Matheson beat the Republican Jim Swallow by just 1,621 votes...both getting 49% of the vote..

However 2 years later in 2004 he beat that same Jim Swallow again this time by 40,000 ..

so the odds of Matheson beating Mia Love again in 2014 are more in his favor..

It seems winning by a few votes now and again doesn’t effect the outcome for Matheson all that much...

[Utah Binger]

Dame Elsie is back trying to help the dummies tell the difference between "Mormon" and "MormonISM" as a public service. Sorry Elsie, some of them will never get it.

[hattend]

Good for Mia!

[Elsie]

Sorry Elsie, some of them will never get it.

Oh; I think they get it just fine.

But since MORMONism can't be defend worth a darnie poo; they have no CHOICE than to attack the poor messenger over and over and over...