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To: achilles2000
It's you who are locked in a mental cage, and you've already mentioned other "transgressions" you claim our Founders committed against their own constitution.
One was Founder John Marshall's judicial review, another was Founder Alexander Hamilton's national bank.
While we're at it, we could list Jefferson's Louisiana Purchase.

But the real issues on this thread are rebellion, sedition, treason and secession, all of which Founders themselves confronted & defeated.
For George Washington it was the Whiskey Rebellion, which he raised an army to defeat.
For President John Adams, and his Vice President Jefferson, it was the wartime threat of French instigated sedition, which they passed laws to successfully prevent.
For President Jefferson, it was threatened secession of his own Vice President, Aaron Burr, which Jefferson prevented by sending military forces to arrest Burr, then had him tried for treason.
For President Madison, it was the entire New England threatening secession, for which Madison moved US military forces off the frontier with Canada, into strategic position near New England, in case they were needed.

As it turned out, Madison's actions against the secessionists were adequate to not only discourage them, but also helped drive their Federalist Party to collapse.

So, I say, if you condemn these allegedly "unconstitutional" acts by our Founders, then you condemn the Founders themselves, and their constitution.
And in condemning them, you also condemn yourself to a fatal belief in absolutely nothing.
And that, by definition, is not Conservative, it's something very different...

314 posted on 06/14/2014 5:08:43 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK

You have an unsophisticated view of who the “Founders” were, and Madison, as I pointed out before, didn’t share it. Moreover, it wasn’t “their” Constitution to ignore at will. You are right about Jefferson and the Purchase. He was obligated to make the Purchase contingent on an amendment.

In general, yes, I condemn those actions, but not the Constitution. You just don’t believe in the rule of law, which is typical of a statist. Other than Marshall, I think their unconstitutional actions were generally aberrations. With Lincoln it was a case of systematic disregard for the Constitution that became entrenched and that has gone far beyond anything he would have imagined or endorsed. That is always the problem with “sorcerer’s apprentices”.


315 posted on 06/14/2014 5:37:43 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: BroJoeK

He saves his wrath for Lincoln. At least he is consistent in his inconsistency...


316 posted on 06/14/2014 7:28:30 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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