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To: ConservingFreedom
Yes, all the drugs were legal back in Franklin's era, but there was not major and widespread abuse going on.

Exactly my point.

No, that isn't your point. In 1770 supply was severely limited. It was NOT POSSIBLE to support a large addiction demographic at that time. YOUR POINT is that in conditions of plenty of supply, people would still behave as they did in the 1770s, and that is utter nonsense.

You are falsely conflating the conditions of one era which were very different, with the conditions of our time period where supply issues wouldn't be a restriction.

Asserting equality between Franklin's era and the post Civil War period

I never did that.

You most certainly did. It is implicit in your argument.

Oh, so you mean the spread of addiction is NOT a simple matter of physiology, as you appeared to be claiming earlier? I agree.

Yes, it *is* a simple matter of physiology. The stuff is addictive and it will addict. The only role culture will play is HOW FAST IT WILL HAPPEN. It will happen regardless of culture, but culture may slow down the infection or speed it up depending upon what that group of people believe.

Looks like the addiction experts are right to say culture and environment are important factors.

Oh they are factors, but they are not significant factors to the eventual result. They only slow or accelerate the effect, they will not stave off the effect.

Many times - it seems to be one of your favorites. What do you imagine it proves?

Given that it was taken during one of the most famous experiments (and in a Western Culture) to legalize drugs, it proves that if you legalize drugs you will create a zone of hell. It was a real world experiment, and it didn't go your way. It proved your argument is crap.

What it proves to me is that legalizing sale and use in one small area will concentrate sale and use in that area, which is almost certainly not a desirable outcome.

This is the argument that communists used to explain why communism didn't work. It's because it wasn't universal. If you would just make it universal, it would work, but it can't work piecemeal.

To which any sane person would respond, "if it won't work on a small scale, by what leap of logic can you imagine it working on a large scale?"

299 posted on 07/08/2014 7:29:03 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: DiogenesLamp
Yes, all the drugs were legal back in Franklin's era, but there was not major and widespread abuse going on.

Exactly my point.

No, that isn't your point. In 1770 supply was severely limited. It was NOT POSSIBLE to support a large addiction demographic at that time.

That's liberal static economics - conservatives know that in a free market demand leads to supply. Opium existed - Americans were getting the amount they wanted.

Oh, so you mean the spread of addiction is NOT a simple matter of physiology, as you appeared to be claiming earlier? I agree.

Yes, it *is* a simple matter of physiology. The stuff is addictive and it will addict. The only role culture will play is HOW FAST IT WILL HAPPEN. It will happen regardless of culture, but culture may slow down the infection or speed it up depending upon what that group of people believe.

Again, the available evidence is that U.S. opium addiction was low and declining when it was legal. Pooh-poohing that evidence is not a substitute for better evidence nor does it win you the argument.

What it proves to me is that legalizing sale and use in one small area will concentrate sale and use in that area, which is almost certainly not a desirable outcome.

This is the argument that communists used to explain why communism didn't work. It's because it wasn't universal. If you would just make it universal, it would work, but it can't work piecemeal.

Not the same argument - the word "concentrate" apparently escaped you. Incentivizing sellers and users to go to a certain small area to sell and use increases not their number but their density, with the obvious problems. Nobody ever argued that the non-universality of communism concentrated it nor that any such concentration made it fail.

306 posted on 07/08/2014 9:04:56 AM PDT by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
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