[Always A Marine]

We won the war in Vietnam only to see the politicians lose it. Vietnam was being invaded by the North. Ukraine is being invaded by the Russians.

Ukraine is not being invaded by the Russians, but it might be soon if the West continues to meddle in Ukraine. There is a civil war raging in eastern Ukraine, pitting the Kiev government against a region that does not want to be governed by Kiev. If self determination is justified for western Ukraine, why not for the eastern oblasts?

Russia clearly has an interest in the success of its allies in eastern Ukraine, and the West perceives an interest in having eastern Ukraine remain under the rule of the new Kiev government that we helped to install. As a result there is a proxy war raging between the US/EU and Russia on Russia's southern border. Now we are upping the ante, making the situation needlessly worse and setting up another "ally" to be slaughtered when our interest turns elsewhere. As tcrlaf remarked earlier, "We have all seen THIS movie before."

[justa-hairyape]

By the weekend or next week, we will be due for a new scandal, terrorist act or horrible tragedy to occur to take Ukraine off the front page.

[kabar]

Ukraine is not being invaded by the Russians, but it might be soon if the West continues to meddle in Ukraine.

There was no Russian presence in the seizure of Crimea, which is part of Ukraine? Do you really believe that there are no Russian advisers in Eastern Ukraine helping to arm and train the insurgents?

There is a civil war raging in eastern Ukraine, pitting the Kiev government against a region that does not want to be governed by Kiev. If self determination is justified for western Ukraine, why not for the eastern oblasts?

That is a matter for Ukraine to sort out. The Russians are heavily involved on one side. They are getting involved in a "civil war." Should we allow them to prevail?

Russia clearly has an interest in the success of its allies in eastern Ukraine, and the West perceives an interest in having eastern Ukraine remain under the rule of the new Kiev government that we helped to install. As a result there is a proxy war raging between the US/EU and Russia on Russia's southern border.

How can it be a proxy war when only the Russians are involved militarily. Where do you think the insurgents are getting their weapons including anti-aircraft missile batteries? There are claims by the Ukrainian government that the two jet fighter planes shot down today were by missiles launched from Russian territory.

You are acting as an apologist for that slimy, KGB punk Putin.

[Sam Gamgee]

What's wrong with upping the ante with the Russkies. They have doing the same to us by arming and providing nuclear advice to Iran. Time for some payback.