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Arm Ukraine or Surrender
The New York Times ^ | August 31, 2014 | BEN JUDAH

Posted on 09/01/2014 8:04:33 AM PDT by Hojczyk

click here to read article


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To: BobL

Pretty good. Fourteen aircraft carriers were commissioned in 1943.


101 posted on 09/01/2014 11:51:19 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Jim Noble

Mad Vlad Putin described former Soviet satellite countries as fake countries that are really just a part of Russia.

The man is going to start WW3

His people openly talk about making space between LISBON and VLADIVOSTOK


102 posted on 09/01/2014 11:51:52 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Jim Noble

Cool, thanks. Decades ago I remember reading a NYT article about the ‘problem’ they were having in actually slowing production of hardware (either 44 or 45)...I could not BELIEVE the production numbers, it was incredible. We could lose 100 planes over Europe and still come out ahead for that day.


103 posted on 09/01/2014 12:06:18 PM PDT by BobL (...part of Agenda 21 (whatever that is))
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To: BobL; Jim Noble

And countries found they could build planes more quickly and in greater numbers
than they could train the pilots to fly them.


104 posted on 09/01/2014 12:11:11 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: FreeReign; Always A Marine

If that’s the case WHY did Putt King help overthrow their government???

Just remember there were/are very many Pro-Russians in Ukraine as well !!!


105 posted on 09/01/2014 12:18:42 PM PDT by danamco (-)
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To: Jim Noble; Hojczyk

Merkel is said to be born in “East-Germany” and speaks fluently Russian, and I believe Putin speaks German. Still NWO is the key!!!
!!!


106 posted on 09/01/2014 12:22:19 PM PDT by danamco (-)
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To: GeronL; Hojczyk

And WHO told you that???


107 posted on 09/01/2014 12:24:47 PM PDT by danamco (-)
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To: GeronL

Kool-Aid drunk!!!


108 posted on 09/01/2014 12:26:30 PM PDT by danamco (-)
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To: danamco
Just remember there were/are very many Pro-Russians in Ukraine as well !!!

Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts were about 30% pro Russian. That of course doesn't legitimize an annexation by force by Russia.

109 posted on 09/01/2014 12:29:57 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: GeronL

Putin called them fake countries that are all really part of Russia. Those were his words and that is not in dispute.


110 posted on 09/01/2014 12:35:10 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL

#Lavrov: We discussed the initiative of our President about creating space from Lisbon to Vladivostok

Lavrov, you know just some dude.... who is the Russian Foreign Minister


111 posted on 09/01/2014 12:37:00 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Hojczyk

Author states that even if the West forced a Ukrainian (surrender) with partition, a conflict with Putin would be inevitable.

“Russia would not stop there. Mr. Putin wants to undermine NATO, and the smell of weakness would tempt him further. It would be merely a matter of time before Moscow exploited the Russians in the Baltic States to manufacture new “frozen conflicts.”


112 posted on 09/01/2014 12:43:51 PM PDT by tlozo
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To: danamco

Merkel (or her successor) is now being presented with the chance to demolish the NWO AND benefit Germany at the same time.

Let’s see how she handles it.


113 posted on 09/01/2014 12:54:28 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Afghanistan was on the Soviet border and the Soviets tried hard for ten years to subdue the Afghans. They decimated the Afghan population but in the end they lost. The war did indeed present an existential threat to the Soviet EVIL EMPIRE. It no longer exists. Russia shall meet the same fate because their leader looks back on the EVIL EMPIRE with nostalgic pride, and has refused to learn the lessons of the past.

I think you're still fighting the Cold War, Senator McCarthy. As you correctly stated, the "Soviet EVIL EMPIRE... no longer exists." Afghanistan does indeed border three former SSRs, though they were the distant frontiers of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan and a safe 2,000 miles from Moscow. Donetsk is near the heart of Russia and only 500 miles south of Moscow -- about the same distance as from Atlanta to Washington, DC. Why is NATO meddling there?

114 posted on 09/01/2014 1:31:42 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Always A Marine
We are there because we won the Cold War. If Russia wanted to dominate the Ukraine, then they should have won the Cold War instead of losing it.
115 posted on 09/01/2014 1:35:44 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Hojczyk

President Buckwheat and his leftist ghouls have been busy trying to turn America into a fascist oligarchy.


116 posted on 09/01/2014 1:42:53 PM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: FreeReign
I'll repeat it again. There was no reasonable threat by Ukraine to Russia. None! Ukraine was NOT seeking to become a member of NATO although they have every right to do it. Ukraine was not a threat to invade Russia. There is no justification for what Russia is doing. None!

You can repeat it until the cows come home, but that still won't make it true. Of course Ukraine is "not a threat to invade Russia" but its possible alliance with NATO would pose an unacceptable threat to Russia's defense in the event of war against NATO. Great powers -- the USA and Russia included -- don't quibble over right and wrong in matters of their strategic defense, and bordering countries either cooperate or get stepped on. That isn't fair, it isn't nice and it isn't pretty, but that's just the way it is.

Just consider the Monroe Doctrine that the United States has rigidly enforced since 1823... It has been our policy that any intervention by outside powers in the politics of the Americas is considered a hostile act against the United States itself. The doctrine was expanded at the turn of the 20th Century to justify US intervention throughout Latin America as we saw fit. Was there any justification for that? How much differently is Putin behaving in Ukraine today than Presidents Monroe, Tyler, Polk, Johnson, Cleveland, TRoosevelt and Kennedy did when they threatened or actually enforced the Monroe Doctrine throughout our hemisphere? Not a single one of these examples is pretty to look at, but asserting strategic self interest is what great powers do or else they die.

117 posted on 09/01/2014 1:58:29 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Tailgunner Joe
We are there because we won the Cold War. If Russia wanted to dominate the Ukraine, then they should have won the Cold War instead of losing it.

I don't think Russia is asking for anyone's permission to dominate Ukraine; more importantly, I don't think anyone is in any position to deny Russia's dominance of Ukraine. The United States is certainly not going to war against Russia over Ukraine, so what we are left with is an academic exercise. If we aren't willing to commit blood and steel, our words are meaningless. That has been my point since Putin reacted to the Kiev coup back in February.

118 posted on 09/01/2014 2:07:41 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Always A Marine
When Republicans take back congress in a few months, we will arm Ukraine with bipartisan support. Russia may occupy Eastern Ukraine but we will make sure it is a Pyrrhic victory. It will cost Russia more than they can afford. We are going to do to Russia what Reagan did to the Soviet Union.
119 posted on 09/01/2014 2:12:05 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Always A Marine
I'll repeat it again. There was no reasonable threat by Ukraine to Russia. None! Ukraine was NOT seeking to become a member of NATO although they have every right to do it. Ukraine was not a threat to invade Russia. There is no justification for what Russia is doing. None!

You can repeat it until the cows come home, but that still won't make it true. Of course Ukraine is "not a threat to invade Russia" but its possible alliance with NATO would pose an unacceptable threat to Russia's defense in the event of war against NATO.

Your response keeps ignoring what I said.

I said that Ukraine was NOT seeking to become a member of NATO. The people didn't want to be part of NATO. Not one Ukrainian president wanted to become part of NATO. This has been well documented over the last several years.

Yet you ignore that and you keep saying that Ukraine was a threat because they wanted to become a part of NATO.

Your claim is false.

And there is no justification for Russia's invasion. None!

120 posted on 09/01/2014 2:22:17 PM PDT by FreeReign
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