Posted on 09/01/2014 12:57:58 PM PDT by babylon_times
BobL has never been in.
“Despite the smaller number of U.S. troops in Europe, the military balance there is far more favorable to NATO today than it was when nearly 10 times as many American soldiers, sailors and airmen were stationed on the continent. The reason for this is simple and obvious: the disastrous — from Moscow’s point of view — revision of the overall European security environment that began in the early 1990s.
With unrest continuing in Ukraine, the West can take some comfort in its modern day military advantage over Russia in Europe. And though numbers alone may not deter Russia from further adventurism, the shift in the balance of forces has been remarkable over the past two decades.
According to the International Institute of Strategic Studies’ “Military Balance” publication — a widely-used and well-respected unclassified compendium of information about the world’s armed forces — in 1989, just before the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, the Soviet Union deployed a total of 64 divisions in what was then known as its “Western Theater of Military Operations.” These are the Russian forces that would have been hurled at NATO in an attack on Western Europe. They would have been reinforced by another 700,000 troops from the USSR’s three frontline Warsaw Pact allies, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, and Poland. In all, more than 100 divisions would have been available for a drive into West Germany and beyond. The six countries committed to defending NATO’s front lines — West Germany, the United States, Great Britain, Canada, Belgium and the Netherlands — meanwhile deployed only 21 or so divisions in Germany. While NATO divisions were generally somewhat larger than their Warsaw Pact counterparts and reinforcement would have been forthcoming from the United States, the disparity along the East-West frontier was nonetheless huge.
Consider the situation today. East Germany no longer exists, while Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and every one of Russia’s other erstwhile Warsaw Pact partners are now members of NATO. So are Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, which in 1989 were parts of the Soviet Union itself. In 1989, the Red Army had almost a half-million troops and 27 maneuver divisions (plus enormous quantities of artillery and other units) on the territory of its three main allies. Today, it has a total of seven divisions in its entire Western Military District, all of which are based on its own territory. Indeed, the entire Russian army today boasts about 25 divisions, fewer than it had forward deployed in its Eastern European allies during the waning days of the Cold War.
Today, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Germany alone field more divisions than Russia has in its Western Military District. These countries are backstopped by the rest of NATO, including, of course, the United States. And this raw count doesn’t take into account the general deterioration of Russian forces since 1991, a quarter-century that saw little equipment modernization. By the late 1980s, NATO already enjoyed a significant qualitative advantage over the Warsaw Pact, and that edge has only increased since then.”
“We agree on that part (except for those of us here who simply want to roll over). It’s your implication that people who disagree with you are “warmongers” that’s bullcrap.”
While I agree that they don’t want to start a ground war with Russia, they seem to think a few planeloads of weapons will somehow change the outcome of Ukraine - while, at the same time, saying Putin is a raving mad lunatic and will stop at nothing until he takes Ukraine.
Well, if Putin is that crazy, then we are not going to stop him with a bunch of hardware that we drop off...just like we couldn’t get the Serbs to budge in Kosovo until we bombed the daylights out of Belgrade and then nearly invaded...no different.
So, regardless of what they say, if Putin is REALLY determined to take Ukraine, and we REALLY intend to stop Putin from taking Ukraine, then we will have to fight Russia...no other options.
So they may not know they’re advocating WW3...but either they are, or they are just bluffing (but understand the outcome will be Putin victory).
Sorry about the term “warmonger”, but I don’t like being called a Putin apologist either (by others).
It really unrealistic to think that the Russians will ever give back Konigsburg to Germany for any reason.
You are the expert that said that Ukraine can’t use NATO and American weapons because of the language barriers.
I doubt that the fear they will just sit in warehouses unfired, is the reason that you are so determined not to allow any weapon and ammunition be sent to the Ukrainians.
“Even now Obama is trying to cut military and defense budgets to hell...right now while the world is burning.”
Yea...it’s like two different worlds. Our world where we see our military strength as a function of what we’re willing to spend on it, and their world where nothing has changed from 1985 and we still have the military advantage that Reagan left to us.
Well guess what...we DO NOT have 1985’s military, NOT EVEN CLOSE.
Thanks.
“I doubt that the fear they will just sit in warehouses unfired, is the reason that you are so determined not to allow any weapon and ammunition be sent to the Ukrainians.”
I don’t really care if we give weapons to the Ukranians, since we’re still in the process of melting them down anyway (since the Cold War is over, don’t you know). So might as well put them to good use.
MY POINT is that a few planeloads of weapons will not change ANYTHING on the ground, no more than it did in Kosovo or Bosnia, where we had to bomb the crap out of Serbians to finally assure victory for the Muslims (LOL). So...yea, give them the weapons, fine, but don’t show up here screaming that we have to bomb Russia when Kiev is about to fall.
As long as we kept appeasing the Soviets, they just kept invading more countries and kept growing and threatening us. Then Ronald Reagan stood up to them and within a few years, they were smashed to pieces.
“As long as we kept appeasing the Soviets, they just kept invading more countries and kept growing and threatening us. Then Ronald Reagan stood up to them and within a few years, they were smashed to pieces.”
He stood up by NOT FIGHTING THEM, but by building up our military. If the end result of our sabre-rattling here is that we FINALLY realize just how much we let our military ROT in the past two decades, then it would have been worth it.
Best line yet. How quickly the Vlam Poopin lapdogs forget.
Vlam gets caught with his panties on his head, and they don’t even remember he’s supposedly not in the Ukraine. LOL
If Putin goes too far and engages NATO with is low end, 766,000 man military, it would be the end of his military, I wouldn’t want to have Russia’s geography and internal conflicts, and China’s looking at me, with a broken and depleted military and a shattered economy all that was left to keep out all of the fires.
That might even result in Russia seeking NATO help.
God you talk some absolute bullcrap.
Putin’s gone through most of his egg money already just helping the separatists. That first convoy he sent into the Ukraine got ambushed and wiped out. The Western credi window is being cranked closed. He’s on the verge of getting kicked out of the G8 and the EU is turning very sour on him. Putey is up to his azz in alligators at the moment and he still has not figured out how to get out of this swamp. The Ukrainians are not going to roll over and just let the Russians take their country.
Reagan defeated the Soviets in Afghanistan by arming the Afghans. The next Reagan will defeat Russia by arming Ukrainians.
Your ignorance is really on display when you don’t realize that Reagan was fighting the Soviets everywhere, he was not merely building up a military, although he did have 435,000 men in Europe.
It was hot in the 80s for anti-communist mercenaries and American GIs and Special Operations and the CIA.
It would sure be more convincing if you could actually say what you are supposedly disagreeing on.
We would have a difficult time TAKING Peoria with nutwad running things.
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