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To: MeganC
We may have a misunderstanding here, but citing a few details might clear it up. There were three distinguishable and separate protests at this Satanic Black Mass:

(1) a large, legal, quiet and peaceful gathering of several hundred people;

(2) a small, (I would argue) legal, quiet and peaceful presence of one petite, kneeling elderly woman (Joan Bell), and

(3) a small illegal appearance of a man with a bullhorn who was taunting participants (David Grisham).

The first was unobjectionable. It was not disruptive, and these people had as much right to be on the street as anybody else.

The second was, I think also unobjectionable. Bell was outside, on Civic Center property (which is public property) and neither blocking nor harassing anybody. Her prayers were not audible. She did not have a ticket to be in the building, but she was not in the building: she was outside.

The third was probably a violation of the noise ordinance. He was arrested accordingly.

I don't think Bell should have been arrested, because she intended no harm and did no harm. No harm, no foul. She didn't cooperate with the police removing her, which resulted in the charges, but I think both her forcible removal and the charges were overreactions.

I would say the same if varous groups and individuals were protesting a Catholic Mass in exactly the same manner.

I would point out, too, that a Black Mass is specifically an act of intended desecration, defilement and sacrilege meant to show contempt to another faith community, Catholicism. It's an act of public provocation. If they had the permit and paid the fee for the use of the hall they're allowed to do it, but the moral approbrium should be on them, and not on one lone and silent woman, outside the building on city-owned property, who was praying unobtrusively for their well-being and redemption.

30 posted on 09/26/2014 2:13:59 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light and light for darkness...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Thank you for your clarifications. Much appreciated. On this one point:

I would point out, too, that a Black Mass is specifically an act of intended desecration, defilement and sacrilege meant to show contempt to another faith community

Eating a croissant is also a specific act of desecration, defilement, and sacrilege meant to show contempt for islam which tried to conquer Austria. Every time you eat one you defile their 'holy' crescent symbol. (I like mine with strawberry jam!)

All kidding aside, these people are still trolling you folks for a reaction. Ignore them and deny them the satisfaction.

31 posted on 09/26/2014 4:38:58 PM PDT by MeganC (It took Democrats four hours to deport Elian Gonzalez)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; mlizzy
Mrs. Don-O:

Generally agreed BUT, I don't think they are likely to have met the standards of due process in arresting the fellow with the bullhorn. "Noise ordinances" need to specify the number of decibels that are prohibited. This requires testing with appropriate scientific equipment and few police carry such equipment. "It was sooooo loud that it bothered me and others" is not an appropriate or enforceable standard.

Also, suppose that just as much (to the unscientific ear) noise is thought to have been caused by the Satanists. Suppose further that some of the police officers present MAY have sympathy with Satanists. Is the arrest of the protestor against the "Black Mass" for the loudness of his taunts or for the content of his words (a quite forbidden violation of First Amendment Freedom of Speech as even the ACLU would agree)? Or were the cops just angry with Joanie's non-cooperation? How can we tell? How can the Court tell? Objectively?

We should NEVER concede to authority powers not theirs to exercise. Freedom of Speech and Assembly are vital to the well-being of our country. We should defend those rights even for our opponents. That does not mean some "right" to rent public facilities to perform such cornucopiae of moral evils as is said to have happened here. WHERE did they get a validly consecrated Communion Wafer which is necessary to the unspeakable sacrilege involved? Theft? Obtaining property by false pretenses? Also, as I understand it, their "altar" is a naked 12 year old girl on a table. Before an audience of "adults" no less!

And yet, one of two things must be true. People and, disproportionately those who attend "Black Masses" and apparently paid money to do so, are aware of what a "Black Mass" involves: Ritual sexual abuse of a child in public involving desecration of a validly consecrated Communion Wafer. Either that occurred in Oklahoma City and each and every adult involved from "Satanic priest" to each paying member of the audience (who are also expected to expose themselves and in this case with a child present) should be arrested for felony violations victimizing the little girl; OR, highly unlikely, everyone remained fully clothed and no one molested the girl in which case the proprietors of this sacrilegious freak show should be arrested for fraud.

Of course, the police were too busy arresting the guy with the bullhorn and arresting Joanie for praying the rosary in the First Degree and dragging her away to satisfy their tidy ideas of who (with badges and uniforms) is supposed to be in charge. Joanie and Bullhorn guy did not defer and so THEY were the ones and the only ones arrested. We once could take for granted that police officers were "on our side" as we sought to advance virtue and retard sin. Dear dead days!

34 posted on 09/26/2014 6:38:17 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club: Roast 'em Danno!)
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