Posted on 10/08/2014 11:41:47 AM PDT by wagglebee
A pro-abortion Democrat accused a pro-life politician of having a weak personality because she turned to alcohol, drugs, and thoughts of suicide after she had two abortions.
The verbal dust-up occurred between Republican Texas State Representative-elect Molly White and State Rep. Dawnna Dukes, a Democrat, during a September 20 abortion debate, with Dukes revealing for the first time publicly that she, too, has had an abortion.
White, who won the March Republican primary for House District 55, was taking part in the Texas Tribune’s “Women’s Health Debate” panel, where her introduction included that she was post-abortive and that her experience with two abortions had led her to drug and alcohol use, suicidal thoughts, and other health challenges.
The panel began with on Texas House Bill 2 (HB2), which bans abortion after 20 weeks, requires abortionists to have admitting privileges within 30 miles of their facility and requires that abortion facilities meet the same standards as ambulatory surgical centers (ACS).
White’s fellow panelist Dukes, her soon-to-be colleague in the Texas legislature, attempted to debunk the idea that abortion has any negative effects on a woman’s life, taking personal shots at White in the process during the panel, which was audio recorded by the Tribune.
“It is a personality type that would turn to using drugs and alcohol,” Dukes said, “not the procedure that makes one do that.”
“And I know for a fact that one who has an abortion does not have alcohol and drug-related issues,” she said. “That is a personality type that should have gotten some psychological treatment.”
White took issue with Dukes’ statements equating post-abortive conditions with personality disorders, saying unless one has had an abortion they shouldn’t tell a post-abortive woman what she feels.
“OK, then, fine,” Dukes declared. “To the world: I had an abortion. And I’m not a drug addict, and I’m not an alcoholic.”
White defended herself, saying, “I’m not a drug addict, and I’m not an alcoholic. But I don’t live in denial, either.”
White said the discussion should either be about abortion or women’s health, but the two should be separated, because abortion is not about women’s health. “A safe abortion is women’s health,” Dukes replied.
After White recounted how she was lied to about fetal development before her first abortion, Dukes continued to make it personal, replying, “Well, you did it twice. You should have done your research.”
White, who is the founder and U.S. director of Women for Life International and a worldwide speaker on the subject of abortion, told LifeSiteNews that she recognized Dukes as post-abortive prior to Dukes’ confirming it because of how hard, defensive, and angry Dukes was.
“I used to be that way,” White said. “I can pick them out of a crowd, because I walked in their shoes.”
White said that aside from trying to insult her by saying she had a weak personality, Dukes said outlandish things that White couldn’t rebut them, because she was sensitive to exposing Dukes' post-abortive status.
“I refrained from challenging her on a personal level,” she told LifeSiteNews.
White approached Dukes after the panel and spoke of burying the hatchet and working together in the Texas statehouse. White told LifeSiteNews their conversation was civil.
White also reached out to Dukes last week in the hopes of talking more with her, but has not heard back from her.
She said she wants to carry the post-abortion reconciliation message after taking office because, she said, Dukes is not the only post-abortive woman serving in the Texas legislature.
“I’m really hoping God will use me as an instrument of healing,” White told LifeSiteNews.
Any woman with a soul will eventually have to face the reality of what she has done.
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I am, however, curious as to what the organizational view is on the spirits of the murdered children. Is the Romanist view that all the children are saved in heaven, irrespective of not receiving the 7 sacraments? Are they vicariously anointed with some kind of replacement sacrament (the way the Mormons claim that they can be baptized for the dead). Are the children all lost? Can you fill us in on the official view?
Democrat Dawnna Dukes says that she is tough because she didn't even blink, nor has any remorse, about killing her baby. Republican Molly White, on the other hand, is weak because she regretted, and suffered great remorse, after killing her baby(s) ...
Both murderers, but I'd still vote for the one who has conscience (and repentant) versus the one with a seared (and deadened) conscience.
“Molly White”
Well...that is pretty racist.
What I’d like to say to this gal:
Should have gotten some psychological treatment? Wanna know why that doesn’t happen, Ms. Pro-Abortion? Because basic standards for medical care are waived for abortionists - because of politicians who are so desperate for power and/or so desperate to deny the reality of what they’ve done, that they will allow women to be used and abused in order to pretend that abortion is no big deal.
And that is YOU, Ms. Pro-Abortion. You twice voted against informed consent for a woman to see an ultrasound showing the fetus before being able to consent to an abortion. You said that the pro-lifer should have done her homework before the 2nd abortion; would you agree that any patient who trusts their doctor rather than self-diagnosing and sorting out all the medical facts for him/herself “deserves what they get”?
IIRC this debate was over the issue of whether abortionists should be required to have admitting privileges in hospitals so that they can handle a medical emergency during an abortion. Why the heck - other than desperate denial - would ANY post-abortive woman ever insist on the right of an abortionist to give sub-standard guarantees of safety for his/her “patient”?
Wanna know what was considered to be “normal adjustment”, in one analysis claiming that Post-Abortion Syndrome doesn’t exist? A woman waking up panicked by recurrent nightmares where she saw her baby circling the toilet. That’s considered normal run-of-the-mill stuff. IIRC, a woman unable to vacuum her carpet without breaking down was also considered “normal”.
Some psychologists would say that Kermit Gosnell and others like him, whose consciences were deadened, are the ones who truly needed “psychological treatment”. People who have no reaction to human death around them - and specifically the death of their own child - are recognized as psychotic, and those who are stuck in denial rather than going through the grieving process are just as sick as those who turn to drugs or alcohol. Psychologists would say that denial as a “personality type” is problematic.
Why do you hate women so much?
Good post.
For starters, this thread IS NOT in the Religion Forum and I would prefer to keep it that way.
As far as I know, the Catholic Church has no official teaching on this matter; however, the Church's view has always been that baptism is necessary for salvation.
For centuries, theologians have hypothesized that there exists a "Limbo of Infants" that is similar to the Bosom of Abraham where unbaptized infants (including miscarried and aborted babies) are denied Beatific Vision, but still enjoy complete happiness. Most seem to assume that after the Last Judgment those in Limbo will be taken into Heaven.
There are others who have suggested (without necessarily using the words) that the aborted babies have been killed because of "odium fidei" (hatred of the faith) and have undergone a "Baptism of blood" and are martyrs similar to the Holy Innocents. This is based on the theory that their murders prevented God from giving justification through Baptism. This is what Pope Saint John Paul II wrote about in Evangelium Vitae when he said that the babies were "entrusted with sure hope to the Father and His mercy."
Nevertheless, were the Church to officially teach that aborted children were automatically saved, other problems would arise. Mainly, it would be suggesting that their murders were actually GOOD because it assured salvation that would not be assured had they lived.
Bottom line, I don't think any of us can definitively know right now. What we can know is that unrepentant abortionists are almost assured damnation and that the ongoing murder of the unborn is an abomination to God.
This is the left trying to take control of the language.
We need to push back VERY HARD on this idea: it is normal to have remorse and guilt when contemplating the part one has played in the death of another person.
The individual that doesn’t feel remorse is the one whose personality “type” is suspect. Those without remorse can be classified as sociopaths at best - psychopaths at worst.
When either side trots out the human-interest angle, everyone’s eyes roll. Anecdotes are not statistics, people. Do the research and use well-constructed statistics to make your points about the overall trends in behavior associated with evil Democrat / progressive policies.
Even unbaptized infants who died are given Catholic funerals, and all the priest basically says is "we commend them to the Mercy of God."
That's as far as we can go. In God's mercy they are in good Hands.
Three ways to feel nothing after an abortion:
1. You’re a sociopath to begin with (what’s a feeling?)
2. Antidepressants (whatever...)
3. Projection (start hating men and become a feminist)
Combos of these three enable a rise into liberal management.
Agreed. What an ugly mess Dukes has created.
Good post.
Thank you for your thoughtful answers.
Any comments?
What are your beliefs on the matter? (And trust me, I don't think there's a wrong answer. I know what we all WANT the answer to be, but that doesn't necessarily make it the answer.)
Well, as one who subscribes to a "reformed view" of the Gospel, my perspective may not be welcome. Nevertheless, you asked politely (thank you for that) and I shall try to answer honestly and openly.
The Scriptures tell us (Eph. 1) that the elect have been chosen, "...before the foundation of the world." Thus, those babies who are among the elect are with Christ in heaven irrespective of the length of time their earthly existence lasted. If at conception they were miscarried, they were still humans ("formed in the womb" as David says). If they were murdered in an abortion, they were still humans. If they are murdered at 4 years old, 40 years old or whatever, and they are among the elect...they are rescued. The Scriptures tell us in Romans 9 that the choice of election is up to God and, "Before the twins were born, before they did anything good or bad, God said, 'Jacob I will love. Esau I hate.'"
Thus, from this much you can probably gather what I believe will happen to non-elect babies...the same thing that would happen to them if they lived to be 89. Predestination by a loving God is not the same thing as the Muslim view of "fate", although those who recognize it (predestination, that is) are often grouped with that sick, perverted cult of pagan heresy. But, predestination is a Scriptural concept Paul makes clear in Rom. 8.
I certainly share your observation that those who believe in an "age of accountability" or some such add-on doctrine are in a dilemma with this matter. It would incentivize us to murder every child possible to prevent them from reaching the age and choosing poorly.
In the current day reformed view, all things are being managed by God and there is nothing but justice and mercy in Him. Every detail of every life is orchestrated and there are no accidents or early deaths. All occurs just as God designed and is causing to occur (Prov., Rom. 8).
I don't mean this to be offensive, nor provocative. Thanks for asking, my FRiend.
I know what they are saying. Is it okay if I say it?
What they are saying is:
“Tough it up b!tches. You got yourself into this mess now deal with it.”.
There. I said it. I know that is what they meant.
how compassionate of them, lol
Compassion has nothing to do with it. They got her money that is what they wanted.
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