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To: The_Reader_David; Kaslin; deadrock; Louis Foxwell; BipolarBob; CondorFlight; Mrs. Don-o; ...
It is neither God’s divinity nor His ominpotence, Francis was denying, but conceiving of God as a mere being, or seeing His activity as the activity of a mere being like a magician (or, for that matter an engineer). God is the very ground-of-all-being, prior to even the distinction between existence and non-existence, and no created binary distinction is applicable to Him.


I agree, especially that Francesco was mistranslated. Here is what he said in Italian:

"L'inizio del mondo non è opera del caos che deve a un altro la sua origine, ma deriva direttamente da un Principio supremo che crea per amore. Il Big-Bang, che oggi si pone all'origine del mondo, non contraddice l'intervento creatore divino ma lo esige. L'evoluzione nella natura non contrasta con la nozione di Creazione, perché l'evoluzione presuppone la creazione degli esseri che si evolvono"....

"Voglio solo sottolineare - ha proseguito Papa Francesco - che Dio e Cristo camminano con noi e sono presenti anche nella natura. Quando leggiamo nella Genesi il racconto della Creazione rischiamo di immaginare che Dio sia stato un mago, con tanto di bacchetta magica in grado di fare tutte le cose. Ma non è così. Egli ha creato gli esseri e li ha lasciati sviluppare secondo le leggi interne che Lui ha dato ad ognuno, perché si sviluppassero, perché arrivassero alla propria pienezza....

[Dio ha reso l'uomo] "responsabile della creazione, anche perché domini il Creato, perché lo sviluppi e così fino alla fine dei tempi... Quindi allo scienziato, e soprattutto allo scienziato cristiano, corrisponde l'atteggiamento di interrogarsi sull'avvenire dell'umanità e della terra, e, da essere libero e responsabile, di concorrere a prepararlo, a preservarlo, a eliminarne i rischi dell'ambiente sia naturale che umano.

"Allo stesso tempo... lo scienziato dev'essere mosso dalla fiducia che la natura nasconda, nei suoi meccanismi evolutivi, delle potenzialità che spetta all'intelligenza e alla libertà scoprire e attuare per arrivare allo sviluppo che è nel disegno del Creatore. Questa speranza e fiducia in Dio, Autore della natura, e nella capacità dello spirito umano sono in grado di dare al ricercatore un'energia nuova e una serenità profonda.

"Ma è anche vero che l'azione dell'uomo, quando la sua libertà diventa autonomia - che non è libertà, ma autonomia - distrugge il creato e l'uomo prende il posto del Creatore. E questo è il grave peccato contro Dio Creatore."

In the second paragraph, the one widely quoted, he is NOT saying God is not divine. My translation of his words: "I want to underline that God and Christ walk with us and are present throughout nature. When we read in Genesis the account of creation, we invoke an imaginary God, like a magician with a magic wand able to do everything. But He isn't that. He has created all that is; and has he has left or given to everything internal laws of development — as such, creation grew; its fullness arrived."

He goes on to reassert that God has given humankind responsibility to Creation, and that Christian views of science stress responsibility for preservation. He calls God "the Author of nature" able to rediscover new energy and deep serenity in the human spirit; but that when humans try to take the place of God, they wreak destruction -- "a grave sin against God."

13 posted on 10/30/2014 8:02:16 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (It is better to offend a human being than to offend God.)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode

Ping to post 13.


14 posted on 10/30/2014 8:03:17 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (It is better to offend a human being than to offend God.)
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To: Albion Wilde

Good clarification. Thank you.


18 posted on 10/30/2014 8:31:42 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Albion Wilde

So we have a #2 He was mistranslated. That clears that up. I don’t know why people attack this Pope over his remarks. See post #5.


20 posted on 10/30/2014 8:55:46 AM PDT by BipolarBob (You anger Protestants by telling them a lie, you anger Catholics by telling them the truth.)
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To: Albion Wilde
Here is the translation of your post. (I used the Bing translator and I think it came out quite accurate

"The world is not chaos that must work to another its origin, but derives directly from a Supreme Principle that creates love. The Big-Bang, which today is at the origin of the world, does not contradict the Divine Creator but it requires. The evolution in nature does not conflict with the notion of creation, because evolution assumes the creation of beings who evolve "etc..

"I just want to point out-continued Pope Francesco-that God and Christ walks with us and are present in nature. When we read in the Genesis account of Creation we imagine that God was a magician with a wand that can do all things. But this is not the case. He created beings and let them develop according to the laws that he gave to everybody, because it grew because it arrived to its fullness to ....

[God made man] "responsible for creating, also because domains creation because the developments and so to the end of time ... Then the scientist, and especially Christian Scientist, is the attitude of questioning on the future of humanity and of the Earth, and be free and responsible, to compete to prepare it, to preserve it, to eliminate the risk of natural and human environment.

"At the same time ... the scientist must be moved by faith that nature hides in its evolutionary mechanisms, the potential for intelligence and the freedom to discover and implement to get the development which is in the design of the Creator. This hope and trust in God, Author of nature, and in the ability of the human spirit are able to give the researcher a new energy and a deep serenity.

"But it is also true that the action of man, when his freedom becomes autonomy-that is not freedom, but freedom-destroying creation and man takes the place of the creator. And this is a serious sin against God the creator. "

23 posted on 10/30/2014 10:49:40 AM PDT by Kaslin (He neeIs itded the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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