Posted on 11/03/2014 9:13:54 AM PST by redinIllinois
I am 1,000% against “reimbursements”
Don’t take it in the first place. Make it as simple as possible.
Congress has the power to make, change and amend laws. You can’t make anything “tamperproof” from Congress unless you pass a constitutional amendment. But then whatever constitutional tax amendment you would pass would then conflict with the 16th amendment.
So you’re screwed.
This is why:
A FLAT TAX NEVER STAYS FLAT!
Explain how “people at the upper end of the earning spectrum” are going to see their taxes go down under the Fairtax.
A rebate is a tax cut. I want my tax cut!
If you are against my rebate, then you are against my tax cut!
Now tell me how it is conservative of you to take away my tax cut!
Then how do you propose I don’t pay federal tax on spending for essentials?
I don’t. I think it is a stupid premise.
I am against government taking money and then giving some of it back, you seem to think its free money.
Thanks for the ping, TADSLOS.
Bears repeating: TIME FOR THE FAIRTAX!
“When you are taking flak, you know you are over the target!”
The nattering nabobs of negativism are in full chat and in full lie trying to trash the FairTax.
Won’t work! FairTax is gaining support every day!
BECAUSE:
FairTax is about FReedom folks!
April 15 becomes just another Spring Day!
When you go to bed at night, you are done paying federal taxes!
The only reason anyone could oppose the FairTax is if they were dependent on the IRS and the income tax for their livelihood, OR, if they are a LIEberal/Marxist/Socialist/Fascist Pig!
If you stand for FReedom; if you stand for peace, justice and the American Way, you must support the FairTax!
See my post #88.
I fully support the Fair Tax as it is written in HR 25 and S122.
However, once that sucker gets sent to committee, it will be corrupted into a VAT tax on everything. Income taxes will not be overturned.
Be very careful what you wish for.
You got it wrong and you missed the point.
We pay taxes and we are going to pay taxes until we die. That’s principle number one.
The FairTax is proposing that we not pay taxes until we have our essentials.
Now how do you propose to implement when taxation kicks in?
Essentials are defined to about $11,670 per year (2013 average) or 972 per month.
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/14poverty.cfm
That means we (all of us equally fairly) should be able to spend $11,670 without federal taxation.
Now what system do you propose where that can be tracked, each person’s spending? There is none because we don’t want Americans tracked like that.
You won’t find a solution to propose because every means to tax Americans fairly (meaning everyone equal under the tax law) will have assumptions and averaging.
A monthly reimbursement of 23% of the $972 per month ($224 per month for year 2013) allowed is what is in the FairTax Code. You can propose a national electronic database where all purchases are tracked but that is an unworkable and undesirable solution.
To be fair we tell our fellow Americans that an average estimate of spending for essentials is determined and after a certain amount of spending the federal government is going to need to be covered.
And the FairTax is not proposing that the government take money as an interest free loan. They are Prebating it meaning they pay it at the beginning of the month and not the end. So we have no grounds to complain. We are getting our tax exemption upfront.
The FairTax repeals the 16th Amendment so there is no possibility of a VAT being formed from committee. Because with repeal of the 16th amendment the tax provisions of the US Constitution revert to the original clauses. In particular Article I, Section 9:
“No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.”
“No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any state.”
“No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one state over those of another: nor shall vessels bound to, or from, one state, be obliged to enter, clear or pay duties in another.”
A VAT is a tax on business production. But production is geographically fixed and therefore subject to state laws having jurisdiction. A VAT would then be in conflict or intractably formed with Art I, Sec. 9 clauses above.
I see no possibility of a VAT surviving constitutional review and scrutiny in committee.
In fact a VAT does not exist in the USA today because the 16th pertains to income and not excises or imposts.
Europe and Canada have a different basis for taxation and so a VAT arises legally.
Thank you — I've been working on some of these amendments [Direct Link] for a while now.
(This one and the Fiscal Responsibility one would, in themselves, do a lot to stymie the statist and totalitarian trends in government.)
of course; the Washington Establishment Party, shall never approve of it..their power to tax/steal is their power to enslave the ppl..
You are right; which is why I'd like to be able to present them at an Article V convention — my one problem w/ the good folks at the Convention of States is that they don't have at least a few possible working-drafts for each particular issue they wish to address which, IMO, makes them kind of look without-a-plan/unprepared.
"soap-box..ballot-box..gun-box" in that order..realistically. 😟
Aye.
Really?
Can I not oppose it because I think it to be too complicated?
If you stand for FReedom; if you stand for peace, justice and the American Way, you must support the FairTax!
I laid out my solution in Post 73 and would like your opinion as to why it's insufficient, deficient, or just plain wrongheaded
and why.
The FAIR tax is over-complicated, doesn’t reduce rates and the “prebate” is the most retarded thing ever devised.
Income taxes are inherently Tyrannical, for a very large number of profound reasons.
It is simply indefensible to argue for the preservation of the income tax in any form whatsoever. It was ostensibly justified as a way to make the rich "pay their fair share", then it was promptly and increasingly fomented upon the American middle class, and has been destroying it ever since.
Consumption-based (sales) taxes are far easier to administer, require no bloated bureaucracy to enforce, and are intrinsically more fair (e.g. those who consume the most pay the most tax).
Most importantly, sales taxes don't by their very nature necessitate the routine trampling of fundamental concepts of Liberty, whereas income taxes obviously do.
Claiming that the Fair tax is over-complicated or that the "pre-bate" is retarded is hardly enough reason to preserve the Marxist abomination known as the progressive income tax.
The Income Tax is a central plank of communism. It is, in a word, slavery.
Nothing conceived by the twisted collective authoritarian mind of man could be worse than imposing income taxation on supposedly free citizens of a supposedly free country.
1. We get rid of most of the 30,000 tax lobbyists in Washington, DC and their corrupting influence.
2. We get a tax code so simple that anyone who can read the first Harry Potter novel could figure it out.
3. The simplicity of FairTax means 90-plus percent reduction in the yearly compliance and economic opportunity costs of the taxation, a cost that has reached US$1 TRILLION per year.
4. It means millions of jobs, thousands of factories and hundreds of corporate headquarters return to the USA because it is tax advantageous to do so.
5. It means most of that US$15 TRILLION in American-owned liquid assets now sitting in foreign financial institutions for tax avoidance reasons return to the USA.
6. It means a WAY stronger stock market, since capital gains and stock dividends are no longer taxed.
7. It means people can save for retirement and/or serious medical bills completely tax-free, since bank account interest is not longer taxed. And that means way less financial pressure on both Social Security and Medicare.
8. The very way the prebate is structured could become a very effective tool against illegal immigration, since only citizens, legal resident aliens, aliens with legal work permits and foreign college students with student visas can get the prebate payments.
9. By not having to file tax returns with intimate details of your personal finances, it also means vastly improved personal privacy.
10. The government can't use tax code to favor or punish any political constituency.
In the end, it would be the most liberating thing to happen to the USA since the American Revolution. And it will trigger off the biggest economic boom in American history because many companies would want to be locate their operations in the USA due to very fact we no longer impose taxes on the very process of earning money.
What high school civics class did this come out of?
None; I sat down and wrote it myself.
But if you believe it's sophomoric, naive, and/or just wrongheaded
please explain how and why.
Thank you.
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