It could happen.
Posted on 11/29/2014 11:51:44 PM PST by knighthawk
It could happen.
No, it isn’t.
No, it isn’t.
Yes, it does.
Sadly, too often it does.
Charles’s supposed love for Islam is a myth.
And?. That would mean being a protector of religion in what is now essentially a secular state. Admirable I think.
As admirable as cheering on his ideas of the "universality" of the "common" man and lecturing his fawning elite on the evils of global warming? Having incidentally flown to the event 'himself" in his BAE-146 four engine.
Yeah, let's hear it for Bonnie Prince Foppy!
Lord Harries shows what is wrong with a large part of the Church of England, and is the reason I left that Church, despite there being a lot about it, I loved as well. The problem, in my view, is that the Church of England has become over time a social organisation that attracts social climbers and political animals - almost by definition, a Bishop ranks as a Baron (and, indeed, Lord Harries on retirement as Bishop was created a Baron), and an Archbishop ranks as a Duke - for centuries entering the Church represented one of the easiest ways for a middle class person to join the aristocracy, and that has corrupted a large part of that Church - but there's still a lot of good people in it as well. We just don't hear about them as much - because when they appear in the media, it's generally because the media is mocking them.
Lord Harries was a failed Army officer, before he became a curate, and I think that points to his true motivations in life. He's a social climber - he tried using a Sandhurst education and a Commission to climb the greasy pole, but he wasn't good enough to climb the ranks. So he entered the Church.
People like Lord Harries are not Christians - except, at best, as an afterthought. They see the Church of England as an agency for social change - which it always has been, but that social change used to be based on the teachings of the Gospels, and that's something they've decided is no longer required.
As for not seeing the threat - I've lived in the UK fairly extensively. The thing is, while there is certainly an Islamist threat there - and a substantial one - the majority of Muslims one encounters everyday are not a threat. They are ordinary people trying to live their lives. There's vipers hiding among them - but they're hiding. Trojan horse is the right term. It's very easy to only see, to only have contact with, 'good' people. And that does make it hard to see the threat. And who do people like Anglican Priests come in contact with in the Muslim community? Generally, it's moderates who want to integrate into the British community. If that was all Muslims, things would be very different - and I suspect they are the only one that people like Lord Harries ever dealt with.
Thanks for the background on Lord Harries and British sociology.
> “As for not seeing the threat - I’ve lived in the UK fairly extensively. The thing is, while there is certainly an Islamist threat there - and a substantial one - the majority of Muslims one encounters everyday are not a threat. They are ordinary people trying to live their lives.”
4 minutes 51 seconds of the following video should make you rethink your position regarding ‘moderate’ Muslims:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s
And after you’ve had a look at this video I will share with you something that is common to two problem cultures we have with us today and what can be done about it.
‘creative act of accommodation’
It’s an act of destruction.
I don’t need to rethink my position. I really don’t. I know there’s a real problem. But I also know it’s a very small proportion of British Muslims, and I don’t see any purpose or value in treating those who would be our allies (not friends - allies) on this, as likely enemies. They may not be a popular view here - but I served in the Gulf War alongside Muslim allies as well as against Muslim enemies. I’m not some starry eyed idealist. I’m a rockhard realist.
I’m not stupid enough to ever entirely trust them either - any of them. But many of these people are living in Britain precisely because they wanted to get away from the terrorists among them - and are horrified and terrified at how carelessly they’ve been let in.
I have watched the video though, and I’ll elaborate a little.
I think what the woman says is largely correct. And what we need is the moderate and peaceful Muslims to make themselves relevant - to fight against the extremism. And I believe that in the UK, at least, that’s that happening at a far greater rate than people realise.
I think people would be surprised and rather astonished at how many British Muslims are working with (or even for) Britain’s security services. Stopping attacks. Giving over the information needed to get the radicals. That’s all I will say on that. All I can say on it. I have no access to ‘special information’ on this and if I did, I probably couldn’t say anything at all.
But with the number of radical Muslims there are in the UK - and there are far, far too many of them, even if they are a minority - weekly or monthly attacks would not be beyond them. And there are reasons that is not happening.
The actual Trojan Horse was huge and the number of soldiers inside were small in number. The small number of soldiers inside slipped out once inside and opened the gates for the army to enter.
The Horse is a dumb animal. It can be tamed, it can be ridden and made to go where its rider commands it to go. The Horse is symbolic of your Muslim moderates.
The Muslims who appear to us as moderate, in some cases secular, are used by the ‘riders’ as a means of getting the gates open. This tactic has been used by Muslims for centuries. Greece deported all of them, in recent history, including the moderates who made up the majority because without the moderates, the murderous elements could not hide. The same exists in England today.
Don’t think for a second that your observation that “it’s a very small proportion” is any different than similar people as you who lived long before you were born thought that it’s not a problem. When we study history we see the patterns repeat and the attitudes are nearly identical.
When Muslims become allies, it is not for long. Turkey was our ally and today they announce they will not reinstate a Seminary in Turkey until they see a Mosque in Athens; Islam has resurged there. If you knew history you would know that Mostafa Ataturk more than a century ago was able to drive the imams from the public square and turn Turkey into a secular state. Saddam Hussein was similar. But all such ‘reforms’ are via a strong dictator who eventually fades or is driven out, then returns the Imams. It never changes.
Those moderates you have encountered (and don’t think that I haven’t met my share; in fact I’ll wager I’ve met more than you), those you have known may seem as normal as a modern woman in Manhattan dressed to a cover of Vogue Magazine or like the girl next door, she won’t have a thought about religion or politics but the moment she’s with family, it comes out, maybe not from her but from a family member and she will nod and perhaps think of someway to get away from it but she can’t because it’s family. And when she hears of some Imam, heard from family members, who is in the USA with a big pile of funds and who is arguing with Erdogan over a future course of politics, she will fold in with the flock and make an inner judgement that it’s a man’s world, the world of politics. This modern women will do nothing to stop the coming war. That is how nearly all moderate Muslims are and that is exactly what Brigitte Gabriel was articulating in the video link posted above. BTW the description of the modern Muslim woman above is factual and is someone I knew.
So go ahead and wine and dine and have good talks with your ‘allies’. They will smile back and seem friendly until they are told otherwise by their families and masters. I have seen hundreds this way. In fact, one business associate of mine said “the only time I will do business with an Arab is during Ramadan” to which I asked “why” and he said “because it’s the only time when they cannot lie” to which I laughed and said “you’re right about that but then good luck trying to find them during Ramadan”. They lie. Even if they secretly long to be a part of western culture, they know who their masters are and they know those masters control the identity of all Muslims.
Now if you can think of how to organize Muslim moderates to crack down on their radical head chopping Imams, then I am all ears. But then that would be like asking you to show us how you would perform an appendectomy on yourself. Moderate Muslims will never rise up and put a lid on their Imams unless they are like Ataturk or Saddam and then ... they would need to become like Hitler; murderous and imperial.
Glad you watched and agree, and you make a good point regarding the intelligence value of some moderate Muslims. But you likely know that every Islamic intelligence asset is a potential, highly probable double agent, not necessarily by choice. When our heads are literally on the chopping block, most of us will say and do anything to gain reprieve; Christ forgive us that we are not all heros.
But Brigitte Gabriel is making the point that we should not ignore the threat of Islam because a large number of Muslims are ‘peaceful’ and reasonable in their thinking and that it is only a ‘fringe’ that is making all the trouble. Her point is that the Moderates ‘insulate’ the head choppers, the totalitarian elements that are calling the shots. Whether they agree with it or not, they are ‘enablers’.
What about the holy books of the Hindus? The sayings of the Budaha? The writing of Zoroazter? of Mithra? Maybe the Talmud? The words from the Egyptian Book of the Dead? Lets include every holy book there is or was.
What about the holy books of the Hindus? The sayings of the Budaha? The writing of Zoroazter? of Mithra? Maybe the Talmud? The words from the Egyptian Book of the Dead? Lets include every holy book there is or was.
I never said I agreed with him on everything, but I admire, as an agnostic, his willingness to stand up for religion in an age when many sneer.
Seriously, it’s for real.
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