Posted on 12/04/2014 6:30:27 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Selling "loosies" isn't a big deal, but in the past, that sort of law enforcement has paid big dividends.
That's part of the reason that the outrage in NYC is understandable. It wasn't just a police response; there were a lot of police there for a situation where no violence was involved. They weren't defending any victim; they were defending an unjust tax. That's gestapo.
Cleveland....the older-looking kid was aiming a real looking non lethal weapon at people. Police on edge because of seven murders in two incidences on the east side the day before, police trainee who obviously wasn't vetted riding shotgun. It's a "perfect storm" situation.
What's my point? The protest movement took up the wrong case in Ferguson. In NYC they have a real one, so are they going to drop Ferguson or let it taint the one that seems valid?
I hope you read my statement.I’m not against the Police Arresting Garner I just believe they did it the wrong way.They should have Tazered him.
They would have saved themselves a lot of grief.
I know I’m a former Police Officer who has had his share of arresting perpetrators that big.
How much do you think it costs to run/operate a convenience store in New York on a monthly basis? I would imagine the robbing these business men and women get from the city could contribute to a willingness to demand that the police do something about illegal competition.
I have read that his activities were attracting miscreants to the neighborhood (probably keeping customers for businesses away).
To me the story here is that our population has now been thoroughly dumbed-down to the point that they are incapable of sitting on juries and effectively evaluating evidence. If they got it wrong it’s because they had jurors on there too STOOOOPID to understand what was being presented.
There was a victim in the New York case though. People trying to make an honest living running a store. They get discounted by everyone though it seems.
Or jurors that don’t think you should hire someone to take out the trash and then lock them up in prison when they do. Fired? Sounds about right. Prison? NO FREAKIN WAY!
Who in the world would be a cop?
>saying he couldn’t breathe
I think I read he had diabetes and athsma. Maybe he was having trouble breathing, but he could indeed talk so he wasn’t choking. Maybe he was having an athsma attack but again as you say:
< If the crook wants you to get off him, he’s apt to say “I can’t breathe”. That does not mean that he cannot breathe.
>>If he’s not being 100% submissive, then the cops are going to decide he’s resisting. And that isn’t going to go well.
“Resist We Much”
RE: They should have Tazered him.
With his asthma and heart condition, I’m not sure he would not have died with that...
You (editorial you) need to separate the "crime" from the arrest process IMO. Whatever he was doing (or not doing), it becomes irrelevant when he resists arrest. Yesterday I saw some fool on FR make the statement that "The guy was smuggling cigarettes. Apparently, that is a capital offence in some places."
The cop may or may not be in the right - but it has nothing to do with cigarettes.
RE: Cops should not be required to enforce tax laws.
NY Cops are not even enforcing immigration laws...
I know a cop who tells me that every cop knows where the illegals are congregating. He tells me It’s not their job to enforce Federal laws.
As long as these folks are not committing a crime, they can live and work in NY illegally for as long as they wish.
Shouldn't their gripe be against unfair taxes that the underclass in NYC can't afford?
I would imagine they get out voted on that one, but they do have a reasonable way to handle the guy that is not paying those taxes and illegally competing for their business. That reasonable response is to expect the authorities that they pay dearly for to take care of it for them.
The process of arrest is extremely high-stress for all involved, and any physical conflict fast escalates. The guy was committing a crime, had severe health problems, and the process of non-submissive arrest invoked a terminal consequence of those problems.
Two undiscussed points:
1. HE was committing the crime, from which a death (his own) was a consequence. Go look up “felony murder” as a starting point.
2. Interestingly, NOBODY is talking about the autopsy. We don’t know _why_, objectively, he died.
I admire and respect Andrew McCarthy very much but am puzzled why he makes essential his emotional response absent knowledge of the facts as presented to the Staten Island Grand Jury. His and all too many other pundits opinions strike at one of the foundations of the justice system itself.
For those unfamiliar with the NYC system enpanelled grand juries consist of 23 members of the community. Each of the five boroughs has its own District Attorney and Courts.
When the DA presents his case for probable cause against a suspect he must convince a simple majority of the GJ that the evidence and testimony are sufficient to lay charges against the suspect for a trial..
Twelve of twenty three jurors, that’s 50% plus one. Much easier than jurisdictions that have 12 juror GJ systems. It’s the reason that long time New York County DA Robert M. Morganthau made the now legendary statement, “I can indict a ham sandwich before a grand jury”. And one of the reasons that so many big class action suits are filed in the Bronx. Simple demographics.
Fifty percent plus one, not three quarters, not one hundred percent of the Grand jury drawn from citizens of the local jurisdiction but 50% plus one.
Given these odds when a DA can’t convince 12 citizens honest and true that sufficient cause for prosecution and trial it tells me there is no case period, end of story.
For if I can’t trust that panel of 23 of my neighbors then the entire system is in jeopardy and politically motivated persecution becomes possible and anarchy’s whirlwinds start forming.
I may think that a video segment represents the whole story but the Rodney King incident proved that a malicious politically driven media and morally corrupt DA can and do alter our perceptions of reality to accord with the those motives. And since Rodney King the examples continue to grow daily.
As with free speech issues, I may not like the content of some but those protections extend to me if I choose to exercise or need such rights.
It is not possible to overstate the danger of such power released unchained by the constraints of just laws protecting all citizens.
I agree 100% with your assessment of this situation. It has to do with “proportional” reaction by the police. Had this man been suspected of being a “dangerous” criminal, perhaps such a “take-down” would have been considered reasonable and proportional.
However, the police knew who they were dealing with (a petty criminal with no history of being “dangerous”, as far as I know) as he had been arrested several times in the past for illegally selling cigarettes. It’s also illegal to jaywalk, litter the sidewalk, drive 40mph in a 35mph area, solicit prostitution, loitering, panhandling and any number of relatively minor infractions of the law.
Proportionality of the police response is the one and only issue here, and it seems to be an inappropriate response. I’m not talking about whether the Grand Jury’s decision was correct, or incorrect, as that’s a different discussion. Had the response been proportional, the Grand Jury would have never been involved as the man would not have lost his life in a “take-down” in the first place.
To me, it matters not whether this response is a common or accepted practice. It needs to be an uncommon one and deemed unacceptable.
Is this your “Ferguson Moment” Andy? Weak conservatives have been waiting for a chance to beat their breasts for months.
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