$4.20 Per Pound: Price of Ground Beef Climbs to Another Record

CNS News ^ | December 17, 2014 | Ali Meyer

[Texan5]

No Whole Foods here, but I’ve been to the one in the city a few times-what a scam-paying three prices for what I can get/grow here and I actually know where it came from. The only thing that doesn’t grow here at all are artichokes, and asparagus has a short season.

[familyop]

"I hope that is not what you think is laughable,..."

If you read my post, you knew that wasn't my meaning. Many of the ranchers in the West aren't old fashioned at all. As for Texas, I grew up there long ago. Have many people from the coasts moved into agriculture there over the past few decades to bring more regulations against private land rights? Probably not, but that's the way it is in several of the states west of Kansas.

[familyop]

"If we had land I’d raise a calf to kill. I would feed him out first though."

Yes. Some goat farmers eat one of their goats every now and then. Good stuff, but only if the farmer finishes the goat for a month or so on something other than the usual forage (e.g., oats). Granted, cattle generally tend to try to eat plants other than weeds. But where I live, they eat weeds (very high and dry here). That's "grass-fed" range beef, for the most part. Tastes more like buffalo or cardboard, IMO.

[sheana]

Wow. I’ve never been around livestock at all and am so glad that you explained it all to me. Smh

[sheana]

Lol. Tastes like cardboard to me too. Have a friend whose family owned a cattle ranch and he used to stay with us occasionally. He thought he was being nice and kept bringing us tri tips, etc. finally he asked if I was ever gonna cook any. I had to break down and tell him it tastes like crap. He laughed cause he KNOWS there is a big difference in the taste.

[familyop]

"...and as soon as I have enough land, I’ll get chickens and a few goats."

Do some study on extra protein for the chickens. Fish meal looks way expensive to me. Get a large number of 2-liter plastic bottles somewhere. Cut the tops off, and put them upside-down on the bottoms. Put those here and there in the field during the locust season. If there are locusts there, those traps will catch gobs of them. Chickens love to eat locusts. There are also table scraps and the like.

I've raised chickens before but not in winters with temperatures in the minus-30s (Fahrenheit) and ice spraying at up to 110 mph. There are many sun-days here, though, so I'm trying to design a passive solar coop with plenty of thermal mass (more than enough rocks around).

As for permaculture folks, most of us aren't concerned about any real scarcity. We see more than enough water, earth, sunshine and animals for neighbors and all. And there's more than enough space in the country for all who want to try agricultural, technical and/or construction work.

I hope that the following is helpful or interesting for you two if not exciting. There's a very good reason for some of the funny terminology borrowed from the opposition--a reason that quickly dawns on those who read and think.

http://opensourceecology.org/gvcs/gvcs-machine-index

Marcin Jakubowski - The Open Source Economy | @marioninstitute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIIzogiUHFY

Permaculture and the Myth of Scarcity
http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-10-02/permaculture-and-the-myth-of-scarcity

http://richsoil.com/

[Texan5]

I do not mean to sound pedantic or lecturing-as I said, what I know is only true of the small ranchers I grew up with and live around now-I know every place is different, so I’m just exchanging information-buying a single calf to fatten up for slaughter would be a luxury here, because livestock is a source of income locally, and most people maintain a few to breed so offspring can be sold, no matter what kind of stock it is.

[Texan5]

Thanks for the info-fish meal is expensive, and there are other bagged natural chicken scratch products that contain it and are cheaper than the fancy stuff. The only form of locust we have is grasshoppers, but chickens love those, and that keeps them from decimating the whole garden in Summer. I throw my table scraps out by the river for the raccoons now, but chickens and goats will get them when I have those, like everyone else does.

It does not get nearly that cold here-only down to/below 20 for a few days in January and February, even in a cold year, and sometimes the snow/ice doesn’t stick at all-but this area is very rocky-since I plan to build a cabin that has solar panels and storage batteries with an indoor/outdoor greenhouse, rain capture and can go off grid if it all goes to hell, I’m interested in that passive solar rock coop-I work in construction-do you have plans?

[familyop]

I have no drawings for a coop, yet—only some ideas. So I’ll ramble a little here. Maybe you’ll see something worth having a look at in the following pile of words and links. If nothing else, there are surely some interesting materials mentioned below. For an area with more clay than rocks, CEBs (compressed earth blocks, look ‘em up) or clay cob might be better.

It’s very seldom cloudy for more than three days here, and that only happens two or three times in a winter. The ice sprays from nearby peaks that do get more snow.

Build some south-facing rock or other masonry to make a wall with a little bit of a curve to it (radius). Put some glazing over it (e.g., multi-wall or Suntuf polycarbonate) and seal glazing to the wall on the outside.

Build the rest of the wall with concrete blocks (for easy cleaning, cores filled for mass) or wood, and insulate the outside of the wall with polyisocyanurate board where not glazed (north side and whatever won’t get sunlight). Some copper or black steel pipe could also be installed under the glazing and routed into the lower and upper parts of the wall (thermosiphon). Install greenhouse vents near the top on the downwind side to vent off excess heat. And don’t forget the shallow, frost-protected slab. Wooden roof.

A little money could be saved on concrete (or crapcrete made with native sand and aggregate here) with slipform construction (lots of rock here).

But that would probably be a little expensive and hot for your climate. Even here, such a coop would need to be opened up more during summer. Chickens can stand cold down to at least 20 below, BTW, but will eat much more to keep themselves warm enough (and use muscles more, lose weight, etc.). Large chicken tractors would probably be best for summer here, really.

Whole lot of trouble for some chickens, eh? Otherwise, chickens would be seasonal only here—a possibility, as fast as they grow. There are also the wild tax assessors to think about, always roving to construe any new object on a place as a pile of cash for them.

Hmmm. I might just figure out what a rooster and hen, as expensive as they are now, could yield in a short season between April and November instead. Or maybe try to figure out how to keep them in a greenhouse with a soft cover.

From another recent post of mine,...

---

For those who didn’t see the geodesic dome info last week. Geodesic domes—relatively inexpensive and good for extremely windy places if well built.

Desert Domes
http://desertdomes.com/index.html
[Geodesic dome calculators, instructions and other great resources.]

Constructing Our Geodesic Dome
http://byexample.net/projects/current/dome_construction/
(nice, easy 2v dome for not-so-windy places)

I’m building a 4v dome. It’s very windy here sometimes (over 100 mph).

How To Build A Geodesic Dome: 268 Square Feet for $300
http://diyready.com/build-a-268-square-foot-geodesic-dome-for-300/
[Choose the silly answer about Walmart in the popup to follow the text, pictorial and video instructions for free. The YouTube videos are most instructional.]

Covering such domes can be a challenge. Take plenty of time for designing and building. Have fun. :-)

---

Recently got some of this for another project and opened the box. It’s really clear compared to 6 mil Visqueen. Looks pretty tough for a soft cover.

20 ft. x 100 ft. Clear Reinforced Poly Film
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Max-Katz-20-ft-x-100-ft-Clear-Reinforced-Poly-Film-209696/204079061?keyword=max+katz

Might try covering the inside of a dome with chicken wire to keep the chickens off of the plastic, although chicken wire is crazy expensive these days. A top vent would be needed.

[familyop]

"It does not get nearly that cold here-only down to/below 20 for a few days in January and February, even in a cold year,..."

I wouldn't build any more than a cheap, basic chicken coop and wire for security against predators for that climate. Chickens can stand much lower temps than that without much more food. They just won't lay as much during winter. Remember, though, to avoid building the coop very large. Each chicken will generate a lot of heat if necessary (not so necessary in such a temperate climate). Many people have used heat lamps, but I wouldn't.

[familyop]

Come to think about it more, a simpler frame with polycarbonate glazing and some kind of reusable seal for joints might be better. Might check steel stud prices again. Polycarbonate glazing is said to last about 15 years. It could be made easy enough to assemble and disassemble seasonally to keep it temporary for tax issues. And a top vent, of course—probably a greenhouse vent. Some kind of insulating blanket could be put on it at night in the cold spring and fall here (an idea used by some folks in Tibet). Might try that next year for a greenhouse or chicken coop.

[Texan5]

Where do you live? Sounds like Wyoming or the Dakotas.

Thanks for the info-I will probably build a chicken house and yard like the one on the family ranch-the same as the ones my neighbors have. It is usually an enclosed space made of wood either on pilings or a poured slab, like what a house goes on. It has nest boxes, and the door opens onto the yard or my choice-a space enclosed by fencing with chicken wire on top to keep predators out.

Anything that can climb a tree is going to get over game fencing, drop in and grab a chicken or two, including a mountain lion-but at least we don’t have bears...

I’ll probably scrounge some cinderblocks someplace to put on the north-facing wall, where the prevailing wind in winter comes from. The other walls I can make with scrap lumber from jobsites-doesn’t need to be pretty, just keep chickens safe and warm.

Cool dome links-there are several dome homes in this rural hippie and redneck neighborhood- both geodesic and monolithic-along with some other unconventionally built homes. I think they are cool, and wouldn’t mind living in one-I could build a really kickass living area with the fireplace in the middle, vented through a chimney at the apex/midpoint of the roof.

Whatever final shape it takes, I will be building my nest out of SIPs-structural insulated panels made of a rigid foam core with lightweight concrete board on each side-it is rated R-24, very easy and fast to put up and dry in outside walls on a slab, but not used much here-it was originally developed for hurricane-prone areas like Florida.