Posted on 12/27/2014 4:52:35 AM PST by RoosterRedux
Thanks for posting!
-Perhaps you need to reread the Title of this thread:
"Science Increasingly Makes the Case for God"
"You clearly don’t, and that’s your problem. Godlessness."
-ad hominem much?
Nice debate tactic.
BTW, I've seen Muslims who have used better reasoning than that. -and we all know how bats#it crazy they are.
Have a good day, trying to make scientific evidence fit your contradictory beliefs. I wish you well in that endeavor.
It's not that a multiverse doesn't require a Creator. It's that the argument for a multiverse means that the fact our universe seems to be "tuned" for life is simply an accident. It's one of many universes in the multiverse. We simply hit the cosmic jackpot. Thus the appearance that the universe seems "designed" is merely an illusion. The existence of the multiverse cuts the ground out from under the argument that our apparently designed universe needs a Designer.
Keep in mind that no one has ever proven the existence of the multiverse. The concept was created solely to avoid the logical conclusions from the apparent design of the only universe we know.
There’s been to much poison dumped down that well for any of it to be funny any more.
I don’t have any problem attempting to “make” science fit my religious beliefs, FBD. That seems to be your issue. To me, where there is apparent conflict there is error. But, my assumptions are far more in line with changeable science being in error. I accept on faith that Biblical scripture is truth. I have no need to question it. If someone such as yourself wants to pose gotchas and puzzlers intended to undermine the faith of others, I’ll engage. Your argumentation is adolescent and flailing. You’ve undermined the faith of no one here.
you dumped the first poison by being a humorless twit. We were fine til you came along dudette.
> the rabbis of the 5 almond
From one of the more liberal denominations, I’m guessing.
A little inconvenient truth throw cold water on your chuckle fest? Cry me a river.
I seem to recall someone once said something like: where science ends is the beginning of philosophy and religion.
The data that will prove that there is a God is all around us but we can't seem to find it.
It almost seems that science is an attempt to prove that there is no God.
Please name one actual infinity. (One actual infinite entity).
“Not in the world we live in today. Stories verbally passed on from generation to generation from a thousand years ago, without any demonstrable scientific proof are just that. Stories. Perhaps we could view a scientific presentation of a human being walking on water? -uh-huh...”
Still.
“-So the God you believe in, doesn’t even abide by his own physical laws? -Interesting science.”
You seem to confuse science with God. Your puny understanding of “physical laws” is inadequate to explain much of the physical world, let alone God Himself. God stands outside all of creation. Why do you think He would be subject to the laws of creation?
“...by sadistically allowing his wife and children to be murdered. -Not logical. Not logical at all. Ive come to the logical conclusion that the story of Job is completely bogus.”
Ah, Spock, we thought you’d died in The Wrath of Khan!!! Welcome back!
“Sorry, as someone who believes a rational God would follow his own laws of physics, I’ve concluded that the Genesis account is not only inaccurate, it’’s completely flawed scientifically.”
____________________________________________________
“The realisation of Truth consists in the ability to translate symbols, whether natural or conventional, into their equivalents; and the root of all the errors of mankind consists in the inability to do this, and in maintaining that the symbol has nothing behind it.”
-Thomas Troward, ‘The Hidden Power’, 1921
It is an error to assume that everything was created. The truth is...Everything which comes to be is created. God did not come to be. He is eternal.
you’re way too stupid to know that you and I have no agreement on the truth, just about your sour puss holier than thou pharisaical nauseating attitude - how many non Christians do you turn off a day with your pathetic rigid humorless attitude.
I’m guessing a couple dozen a day on average.
Great reading.
During my devotional time I sometimes like to close my eyes and give glory to Him as I marvel at His creation, at how sublime and elegant it all is. The Lagrangian of the Standard Model is so beautiful, how the motions of everything in all of physical creation from the largest galactic superclusters down to the smallest elementary particle are all controlled by just 4 simple forces based on 5 basic supersymmetries that can be expressed as a single set of coupled partial differential equations that can all fit on just a single sheet of paper. That is so amazing. Gloria in excelsis Deo!
What is particularly cool is that God created a creation that we can actually see. That is so wildly improbable in a randomly created universe. It is a big knock against the atheists. The Hubble UDF is a dead giveaway that the universe was definitely designed and not random. (In a random universe the UDF photo would be all black or a gray fog. The matter density gradient has to be absolutely perfect to see large structures like galaxies at cosmological distances. That is more improbable than hitting the Powerball Jackpot lottery several times in a row.)
God designed the universe very carefully because I think that He wants us to marvel at the sheer majesty of His creation and see what He hath wrought. He wants us to see it. And in doing so we cannot help but be forever humbled by it.
This is why we need to be very, very careful before we start picking apart the Genesis account and try to second-guess what God is doing. Were you there? Do you think you can explain to God how His 'days' worked, when there was evening and morning on day 1 with no time reference available? We humans measure time using the relative motions of rotating solar bodies. Do you think and entity that exists literally outside of time and space works strictly in a 1-dimensional time chronology with sidereal days? Do you think you know mind of the Lord so as to instruct Him how time works from His viewpoint? (1 Cor 2:16).
It is interesting that you bring up Job. The whole purpose of the Book of Job is explain our intended relationship with Him: Not as master-slave, where God hands out bennies like f*cking 72 virgins over-and-over for eternity. No. We are to love God despite our suffering, even when we don't know why it's happening. That's the point. Things are going on that neither you nor I have a clue about.
Job sat around a campfire and held a huge pity-party with his pals for 30+ chapters going all, "Woe is me. My life sucks. God, why are you so mean to me?"
And God's answer is beautiful. It is the best description of His Creation in the whole Bible. It far, far, surpasses Genesis 1 in scientific (yes, scientific) detail.
Here is God’s admonishment to Job in Job 38. where God challenges Job after his whiny 30+ chapter pity party:
Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundations? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone— while the morning stars sang together and all the angels[a] shouted for joy? Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb, when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness, when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt’?
Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment. The wicked are denied their light, and their upraised arm is broken.
Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep? Have the gates of death been shown to you? Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness? Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth? Tell me, if you know all this.
What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside? Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings? Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years!
Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail, which I reserve for times of trouble, for days of war and battle? What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed, or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth? Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain, and a path for the thunderstorm, to water a land where no one lives, an uninhabited desert, to satisfy a desolate wasteland and make it sprout with grass? Does the rain have a father? Who fathers the drops of dew? From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen?
Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades? Can you loosen Orion’s belt? Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs? Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up God’s dominion over the earth?
You, good sir, are trying to second-guess God like Job did.
I'm not about to quibble with you over technical interpretations of 'days' in Genesis 1. All I know is what Peter reveals, that a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day - 2 Peter 3:8, based on Ps 90:4. Does that mean God's creation is literally 6000 years old? (6 days * 1000 years)? A lot of Young Earth creationists insist it does. Or does God live outside of time and so 'days' are meaningless from His point of view? Nor will I quibble with you about the linear sequentiality of the actions of a timeless God, other than to kindly point that the 'evening and morning' are mentioned for all the days, including Day 1 without any solar body as a referent, and again that He lives outside of our notion of time per Peter.
God makes it painfully clear in Job 38: When we start to speculate about the mind of God and what happened during the Act of Creation we tread on very shaky ground. Who knows the unfathomable mind of God? Do you? Were you there when it happened? The Bible says that no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God (1 Cor 2:11). Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? (1 Cor 2:16).
This is why I think arguing over sequential chronological 'days' for the creation of thinks like the stars and the heavens is very dicey. What does 'From the beginning' actually mean to a God that exists outside of time and space? How do you even measure a day when there is no sun against which measure it? What does 'evening and morning' even mean, especially on the first day when literally nothing existed but light?
Were you there? Do you know the mind of God? Yes, Adam and Eve were created as the first man and woman, and yes they sinned and Adam fell. But beyond what scripture reveals to us you cannot safely go.
The Bible is not a science book. (And if you want to use it that way then I'll throw Job at you where God describes how He created the dinosaurs.) The Bible is actually a love story. He wants us to love and to glorify Him as we call him Abba (Daddy), where His physical creation is the reflection of that glory, and that is the point of the account of Genesis.
God wants us to simply marvel as His creation, for the heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands (Ps 19:1). Just give glory to God and praise Him for the majesty of His creation, of the universe He created with 100 billion galaxies each with 100 billion stars, and revel in coolness of his Plan for us and what He wrought, and be thankful for the underserved gift of salvation that we receive in the blood of Christ Jesus.
The absolute BEST answer yet! Thank You!
Thanks. I'll check it out.
Well worth your time....hope you enjoy. His work has been a blessing to me.
#38 the thought of “we’re only human” carries special significance when considering our actual capacity to understand the nature of God’s creation.
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