Political Islam: The Jihad That Led to the Crusades

Political Islam ^ | February 09, 2015 | Dr. Bill Warner

[Perseverando]

Re: Great cartoon - I’ll be sure to send it aorund.

Thanks, but let’s all thank Pookie18 for all of her hard work in putting together all these memes 5 days each week, week in, week out.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/search?m=all;o=time;q=quick;s=today%27s%20toons

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,162669.0.html

[Agamemnon]

As I write this I openly wear one of these (as I do daily) - a solid-gold Histamenon noumisma "solidus", minted in Constantinople c. 969 AD, which I had fashioned by a professional jeweler into a medallion.

This jeweler is a master of his craft: he and I designed the piece to be mounted non-destructively and as it is recessed into the mounting, it may be worn in a way that sustains no abrasive damage to the piece itself.

It pictures and icon of Christ on the obverse and portraits of Nicephorus II and Basil I on the reverse. I mounted it to display the Icon.

Warner's history notes Nicephorus's accomplishments:

0961- Under the command of general Nicephorus Phokas, the Byzantines recapture Crete from Muslim rebels who had earlier fled Cordova.

0965 -Byzantine Emperor Nicephorus Phokas reconquers Cyprus from the Muslims.

0969 -Byzantine Emperor Nicephorus II Phocas reconquers Antioch (modern Antakya, capital of the province Hatay) from the Arabs.

I have a greater appreciation for the emperor today.

FReegards!

[Perseverando]

Wow! Thank you for the info. It’s certainly helps make the article more relevant for me.

BTW, how in the world did you find the “Histamenon noumisma?”

[Sherman Logan]

Battle of Tours: With perhaps 1,500 soldiers, Charles Martel halts a Muslim force of around 40,000 to 60,000 cavalry under Abd el-Rahman Al Ghafiqi

Methinks somebody dropped a 0.

Interesting timeline. Though if you assembled a similar timeline for general European history it would look pretty darn violent too.

[Ben Ficklin]

"it wasn't pertinent to the theme"

Precisely. That's why he cut it off in 1095.

There's nothing wrong with a list of dates but it doesn't tell you much about history.

But if you look at it again, he does include the dates in the rise of the Seljuk Turks, which is why Crusades happened.

And he does mention 1092 and the Seljuks fighting among themselves, which allowed the Crusaders some degree of success. But he doesn't mention that Crusaders didn't turn the land that they did capture back over to Byzantium. But he doesn't give the dates of Saladin uniting all the Turks and the Fatimids to drive the Crusaders out.

Nor does he give the dates of al Ghazali who set forth the idea that Aristotle, Plato, and other western philosophers were enemies of Islam.

Nothing in his list about the Mongols and Ottoman Dynasty or the fall of Constantinople.

[Sherman Logan]

He left out year 1204, when the 4th Crusade sacked Constantinople, slaughtered and raped all the eastern Christians, and made off with the Holy Relics.

Could that be because the story ends in 1095, with the call for Crusade?

[Sherman Logan]

The Sack of Constantinople was entirely routine warfare for the time. Nothing happened there that the Byzantines hadn't indulged in regularly themselves, including in their many civil wars.

Had the attackers not been Crusaders, supposedly fighting for Christ, nobody would have had any real right to object.

BTW, the story of the 4th Crusade is a good deal more complex than is usually presented. Plenty of blame to go around.

[Perseverando]

Re: Interesting timeline. Though if you assembled a similar timeline for general European history it would look pretty darn violent too.

Well yes, I guess that’s true, particularly taking into account WWI, WWII, Russian Revolution, Stalinist Russia.

However I think America has gotten Germany & Italy and the rest of western Europe pretty well domesticated for the past 70 years. Not so much for the world’s Islamists, huh?

[Sherman Logan]

But he doesn't mention that Crusaders didn't turn the land that they did capture back over to Byzantium.

The area that the Crusaders were focused on, Jerusalem and its surroundings, hadn't "belonged" to the Eastern Roman Empire for closing on 500 years.

The Byzantines had a much better case for some of the other territories, such as Antioch, the Crusaders glommed onto.

The Crusaders had sworn to return conquered land to Alexis, but rightly or wrongly they believed they were absolved from that obligation because Alexis didn't support them as he'd sworn to do, abandoning them to what he thought would be defeat at Antioch.

[Sherman Logan]

Quite right. However, I think it’s entirely reasonable to note that Islam posed little threat to the rest of the world for about 200 years prior to 1979 and the Iranian Revolution, which revitalized Islam as a political movement.

However, I was speaking specifically about Europe during the period in question. The Magyars were raiding from the East and the Norse from the North. In fact, I believe some parts of France were raided by Muslims, Vikings and Magyars, though probably not at the same time. :)

Not to mention the quite literally continuous intramural fighting among “Christian” Europeans of the time.

[Ben Ficklin]

"hadn't belonged to to the Eastern Roman Empire for closing on 500 years"

Correct and I agree with you. I only mention it because many try to use that as a reason or justification for the Crusades.

Pope Urban's reasoning revolved totally around expanding the influence of the western Church. Nobody in Constantinople asked for the crusades.

[Perseverando]

Re: Quite right. However, I think it’s entirely reasonable to note that Islam posed little threat to the rest of the world for about 200 years prior to 1979 and the Iranian Revolution, which revitalized Islam as a political movement.

I guess, if we exclude about a few Armenians butchered by the Ottoman Turks about 100 years ago.

[pookie18]

Thanks for the kind words, Perseverando! Re "her hard work"...both my wife & I are under the impression that it should be "his" & not "her"...

[jjotto]

Islam posed little threat to the rest of the world for about 200 years prior to 1979

That's called the Industrial Revolution and European empire-building.

[windsorknot]

This is the ugly, unmasked face of Mohammedanism.

[Perseverando]

Re: Thanks for the kind words, Perseverando! Re “her hard work”...both my wife & I are under the impression that it should be “his” & not “her”...

Thanks for the clarification! I had always wondered about the “gender thing,” but was too embarrassed to ask. Now I have real reason to be embarrassed.

I have never heard the story of your screen name, but will hazard a guess that it has something to do with, either a pet’s name, or a pet name from the Mrs. (Hey, inquiring minds gots to know, ya know?)

[Sherman Logan]

Nobody in Constantinople asked for the crusades.

Not true. Alexis pleaded with the Pope and others for assistance leading up to the First Crusade.

Didn't turn out perfectly well for him or his successors, but the Byzantine Empire certainly had a good bit of pressure taken off it for quite a while.

[Sherman Logan]

You may notice I referred to “the rest of the world.’ Muslim atrocities continued in the areas under Muslim rule. Due to their military weakness, however, and more particularly the civilizational self-confidence of Christians of the time, they didn’t bother people outside those areas, for the most part.

Some points about the Armenian genocide:

There is not much evidence that religious motivations were all that important to the planners of the genocide. The Young Turks were not a particularly devout bunch. Greeks and other Christians in the Empire weren’t attacked at this time. The motivations were probably more ethnic and political than religious.

Most of the actual killing was probably done by local Muslim gangs, many of whom probably did have Islam as motivation, along with of course blood lust and looting. Most of them were Kurds, who are now our BFFs in the area.

Your number of 2M is probably high. It’s unlikely there were 2M Armenians in the area for the Turks to kill. Probably more accurate estimates range from 600,000 to 1,500,000. Some accounts have the total number of Armenians in Turkey prior to the War as about 1.25M.

[Agamemnon]

BTW, how in the world did you find the “Histamenon noumisma?”

I obtained it at an auction ~ 10 years ago, along with this one below.

That jeweler and I did the same thing with this second one which was minted during the solo portion of the reign of Constantine VIII (1025 -1028 AD).

It does not have quite so high a relief, but it is ~ 1.5 x larger in diameter (roughly the same weight in gold though):

FReegards!

[mythenjoseph]

If you read Genesis and the beginning of Exodus in the old testament it clearly states “do not let “them” into your land for they will lead you to sin. I am a church goer only because my fiance is into it (I have my own opinions but I do like this churches approach and they have a big following.)The simple fact that Islam is nothing but a militaristic approach to subdue and capture others wealth and then move on when it bleeds everything dry only to move on to another prosperous area because of the place they took over is in shambles...these are sub-human brain dead animals that follow this garbage. It is clearly evident that an individual who would kill for a child abusing pedophile and countries who continue to fund this scam are not concerned ...after all maybe if we (A Christian nation) continue our aid maybe they will appreciate our aspect or or outlook? No they consider this due to them because we are non-believers...fk islam ten-fold....we are screwed as a republic because of the muzzie $ that inundates our so called government...it is simple the jugheads line their own pockets at our exspense and all in the name of diversity financed by Saudi Arabia.