Obama wins Keystone vote as Senate fails to overcome veto

The Washington Times ^ | March 4, 2015 | Stephen Dinan

[jazusamo]

The Senate upheld President Obama’s first veto of the new Congress on Wednesday, dooming for the foreseeable future any chance of constructing the Keystone XL pipeline that would bring oil from Canada to the U.S.

The vote was seen as a key early test of Democrats’ willingness to defend their lame-duck party leader, and Mr. Obama passed that test easily, with the Senate falling four shy of the two-thirds supermajority needed to overturn the veto.

“This is going to come back,” said Sen. Joe Manchin III, a West Virginia Democrat who did break with Mr. Obama and said eventually the U.S. will have to find a way to bring the oil to the country.

Senators voted from their desks in a sign of the gravity of the vote as Keystone has taken on a political significance far outstripping its actual effects on U.S. gas prices, refinery capacity or greenhouse gas emissions.

Environmentalists portrayed it as a key test of whether the U.S. was prepared to move beyond a fossil fuel-based economy. But labor unions and congressional Republicans — forming an unlikely alliance — said it was a test of Mr. Obama’s commitment to American jobs and energy security.

[deport]

From the posted article:

four shy of the two-thirds supermajority needed to overturn the veto.

[jazusamo]

First you said “Canadians voted against having it run thru their own country.” Thackney asked you what vote was that? No answer from you or I missed it.

Now you say “when their own country has vetoed putting this on their own land.” I ask what veto was that and when did it take place?

[thackney]

If a oil pipeline ruptures, the oil pipeline cleans it up. If another party caused the spill, the pipeline company has to recover cost from them, but the initial clean up and cost is paid by the pipeline company.

We’re simply the “middleman” for Canada

We import oil from lots of countries. Claiming us as a middle man does not make sense. Our refineries buy the oil and sell the products, just like from every source of oil.

Canadians vote against it in their own country

I'll ask you again, what vote are you talking about?

[thackney]

'Michigan's Kalamazoo River in 2010 which they still haven't cleaned up'

False.

Enbridge wrapping up Kalamazoo River oil spill cleanup and restoration, on target for fall completion
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2014/07/hold_the_dam_is_gone_cerescos.html
July 11, 2014

...Cleanup costs are estimated at about $1.2 BILLION. ...that we are paying for.

False. It is not being paid by taxpayers.

New price tag for Kalamazoo River oil spill cleanup: Enbridge says $1.21 billion
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/11/2010_oil_spill_cost_enbridge_1.html
November 05, 2014

The largest inland oil spill in U.S. history has cost Canadian energy giant Enbridge $1.21 billion to clean up — a substantially higher figure than previously estimated.

In a securities filing this week, Enbridge Energy Partners reported the total cleanup cost of the 2010 Kalamazoo River oil spill to be $85.9 million higher than figures released last year.

According to the Securities and Exchange Commission filing, the $1.21 billion figure included $551.6 million spent on response personnel and equipment, $227 million on environmental consultants and $429.4 million on professional, regulatory, and other costs.

The company estimates it has $219 million in spill costs yet-to-be-paid.

This pipeline is carrying 'tar sands' oil, which is, in fact, the most polluting kind of oil

False. It is not light sweet like WTI. But this pipeline will displace other heavy sour imports like what we bring in from Venezuela which is also higher in sulfur.

Further the transport of tar sands oil through pipelines in the United States is exempt from payments into the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund.

False. All imported oil from all source pays into this fund.

http://www.uscg.mil/npfc/About_NPFC/osltf.asp

[thackney]

The option to not building the Keystone XL is more oil moved on rail. That has been happening while the Keystone XL continues to be delayed.

Oil Shipments by Rail Loom Large in Canadian Pacific’s Future
http://www.wsj.com/articles/crude-oil-shipments-by-rail-loom-large-in-canadian-pacifics-future-1412711981

Why Canadian crude exports to the US are on a high
http://marketrealist.com/2014/09/why-canadian-crude-exports-to-us-on-a-high/

http://www.crude-rail-markets-canada-2014.com/

Moving more oil by rail is not a better solution than pipelines.

[caww]

The terms of the agreement with the Keystone Pipeline is that we assume the costs for the cleanup of any spills....which is always determined by the agreements made.

It’s the idea we’re middleman for tar sands oil which are nasty business when we have drilled oil and fracking otherwise right here....The Canadian pipeline argument is simply a dishonest attempt to force the United States to bear the risks of the pipeline with little promise of profit.

This pipeline, if it’s constructed, like every other pipeline that’s been constructed it will leak. It’s an absolute.... You can count on it.... map of the pipeline route is over the ‘Ogallala Aquifer’ ..The water there is feet deep NOT thousands of feet,...You are going to make void the farm economy in that part of the country. Just read some of the farmers concerns and about the Aquifer.

The project is being sold as something that it’s not, not to mention lousy safety records.... adding a pipeline carrying the nastiest crude on the planet down through our midsection….farming areas and major aquifers, etc. makes no sense at all except to canadaian companies.

Here’s what an inspector wrote...

“As an inspector, my job was to monitor the construction of the first Keystone pipeline.

...I oversaw construction at the pump stations that have been such a problem on that line, which has already spilled more than a dozen times....When I last raised concerns about corners being cut, I lost my job.

People along the Keystone XL pathway have a lot more to lose if this project moves forward with the same shoddy work.
What did I see?

Cheap foreign steel that cracked when workers tried to weld it,... foundations for pump stations that you would never consider using in your own home,... fudged safety tests, staffers explaining away leaks during pressure tests as “not too bad,” ...shortcuts on the steel and rebar that are essential for safe pipeline operation... and siting of facilities on completely inappropriate spots like wetlands.

So we have a pipeline that could very well leak into critical water supplies, will create few permanent American jobs, will actually increase the price of fuel in the Midwest, and will ship oil for sale overseas rather than ensuring a supply for the US.”

[caww]

...”Moving more oil by rail is not a better solution than pipelines”...

Then let canadians build it in their own country,....so why aren’t they?....check it out...I did.

[caww]

There have been many eminent domain actions against property owners in Texas, for example. One of the most famous is the case of the 78-year-old grandmother, Eleanor Fairchild. Police arrested her and threw her in jail for a night. Why? She was trespassing — on her own farm! A Texas court condemned the property at TransCanada’s request after she refused to sign over her property. They seized it anyway.

There are many more such stories. All you have to do is Google “TransCanada Pipeline” and “eminent domain.” You will find a long trail of news stories covering the struggles of property owners against the thuggish oil company and its bullying government henchmen. You’ll find the pepper-spraying protesters, threatening letters and other nastiness. And you’ll find TransCanada stealing a lot of properties....

Here is an excerpt from an article from the Austin-based Statesman:

“The pipeline’s southern segment doesn’t require an international permit. It crosses about 800 tracts of land in Texas. According to The Associated Press, TransCanada has claimed eminent domain to condemn more than 100 of those tracts — an unusually high condemnation percentage (about 12.5%) for a pipeline project in Texas.”

Proponents of the pipeline overlook all this.

http://dailyreckoning.com/why-you-should-oppose-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/

[thackney]

The terms of the agreement with the Keystone Pipeline is that we assume the costs for the cleanup of any spills....which is always determined by the agreements made.

False.<

It’s the idea we’re middleman for tar sands oil which are nasty business when we have drilled oil and fracking otherwise right here

This won't replace US production, it will replace imports of other heavy oil like we get from Venezuela. And it will come regardless of the Keystone XL or not, just as it does today.

map of the pipeline route is over the ‘Ogallala Aquifer’

Along with the hundreds that cross it today.

More false claims like the rest of stuff you've put up on this.

[thackney]

So you oppose all pipelines? Eminent domain issues are no different for the Keystone XL than all other common carrier pipelines.

[thackney]

Then let canadians build it in their own country,....so why aren’t they?....check it out...I did.

Canada produces more oil than they consume. They are an oil exporter. The Keystone XL pipeline will cross their country as well as ours. Canadians want this pipeline built.

[caww]

Wrong....sludge is still there....look further...

Meanwhile.... There’s No Good Reason to Build Keystone XL unless you’re China

The Keystone project is not an American one, but a global one, financed and favored by major multinational oil interests.

The pipeline is a $7 billion project, but only $3 billion-$4 billion of that would be headed to the U.S. The rest is going to wherever that steel is getting outsourced.... The claim of reduced dependence on foreign oil suppliers is also suspect.

China has already invested billions in Canada’s oil sands, and Chinese corporations are upping their stakes all the time.... Much of the oil transported by the pipeline will be refined in Port Arthur, Texas, where the main refinery is half-owned by the state-owned oil company of Saudi Arabia

[caww]

....”Canada produces more oil than they consume. They are an oil exporter”....

So do and are we....next...that’s a non argument.

[caww]

You're not getting it...I have no issues with pipelines IF THEY”RE OURS and benefit us rather than throw something on our lands that stands to gain profit and benefit for Canada, China and other foreign interests and we get nothing but the risk for the clean up. As to the spill from Enbridge’s Line 6B dropped 840,000 gallons of 'bitumen' to the bottom of the Kalamazoo River in Michigan.... years later and more than a billion dollars later, the cleanup continues...the sludge is still there.

BTW Look up BUTUMEN" and you;ll understand why this is not just a regular pipeline..it's the substance they'll be tracking through our country...and the damage to our farms, waterlands etc just with the leaks alone.... as a result.

Additionally Last spring, Exxon’s Pegasus line burst near a residential area of Mayflower, Ark., spreading 210,000 gallons of 'bitumen' through neighborhood streets, causing evacuations and leaving residents complaining of respiratory problems, nausea and headaches.

I know that's possible as we had a simple gas tanker rupture passing by on our street and the fumes etc. were outrageously difficult to breath...everybody got out until Hasmit had it cleaned up and even then we could smell and taste it.

[thackney]

....”Canada produces more oil than they consume. They are an oil exporter”.... So do and are we....next...that’s a non argument.

What!?! No we are not. We import 7 million barrels a day of crude oil.

We refine more than use, we export the surplus products, but we import a lot of oil. We don't come close to producing as much oil as we use.

[thackney]

More lies.

Media Advisory - 75 Per Cent of Keystone XL Pipe would be ‘Made in North America’
http://www.transcanada.com/5951.html

Calgary, Alberta – February 17, 2012 – TransCanada Corporation (TSX, NYSE: TRP) (TransCanada) confirmed today the vast majority of the pipe for Keystone XL would be manufactured in North America. In addition, the company intends to purchase approximately 90 per cent of all other goods for the $7.6 billion project from companies on the continent.

“Seventy-five per cent of the pipe used to build Keystone XL in the U.S. would come from North American mills, including half made by U.S. workers in Arkansas,” said Alex Pourbaix, TransCanada’s president, Energy and Oil Pipelines. “In addition, we have already sourced goods for the pipeline valued at approximately $800 million from U.S. manufacturers.”

- - - - -

Even if your claim was true, $3~4 billion dollars in US business to provide a more secure oil supply for the US. And you think that is a bad thing, in addition to the hundreds of permanent jobs and tens of thousand construction jobs?

[thackney]

YOu are just making up issues. This is an oil supply to the US. It benefits the US and US companies.

Look up BUTUMEN"

I don't have to "google" this stuff to understand it. I've spent a couple decades in the Oil/Gas/PetroChem industry. I've worked as design engineer and field engineers in oil field production and been a lead engineer for several major pipelines.

I spend my days wearing FRCs because I work around it every day.

[afraidfortherepublic]

Well, if 8 Dems voted with the GOP, and we still need 4 more votes, it looks like we need 12 COMMITTED Republicans to win election to the Senate in 2016.

[jazusamo]

Hello? caww

The vote and veto assertions have been asked several times, we're still waiting for answers.

[foreverfree]

The photo with the article shows anti-Keystone demonstrators. One of them (from the Sierra Club) is holding a "NO KXL" with Ears's campaign logo substituting for the O. Another sign depicts Barry's veto pen. Has the WT drifted left?

ff