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To: Repulican Donkey

“No, he wore gray to defend a state’s right to withdraw freely from a union it entered freely.”

The United States of America was founded with the accession of each State agreeing to “Article XIII. Every State shall abide by the determination of the united States in congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State.” The Confederate States of America engaged in insurrection and treason when they falsely denied by force of arms the founding provision “the union shall be perpetual” and “alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State.” Nowhere can it be found where the unilateral secession of any of the Confederate States of America was in any way, shape, or form “agreed to in a congress of the united States.” On the contrary, the majority of the States specifically rejected and opposed any unilateral secession from the perpetual union by any State or States. By willfully engaging the perpetual union of the United States of America, which Robert E. Lee had sworn by oath to protect and defend, in armed combat, he committed sedition and treason against the United States of America.

“The right to secede was taught at West Point.”

Given the fact the United States was founded as a perpetual union that could be altered by the secession of a State if and when “agreed to in a congress of the united States,” such a fact is not particularly remarkable, nor does such a fact grant any State the right to secede where a “union shall be perpetual” and “such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united States” has not been accomplished or even attempted.

“The states made the union, not the other way around.”

Yes, the States did make the Union, and when they did so they specifically stated a law saying “the union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State.” It is quite evident that the majority of the States did not agree or confirm any alteration in the provision stating “”the union shall be perpetual.”

“The south didn’t fight to keep slavery nor did the north fight to abolish it.”

That statement is a lie. The Confederate States of America purported to secede while citing slavery as a right and power being “perverted to their injury and oppression....” See for one example the ordinance of secession promulgated by the State of Virginia:

[QUOTE]
AN ORDINANCE to repeal the ratification of the Constitution of the United State of America by the State of Virginia, and to resume all the rights and powers granted under said Constitution

The people of Virginia in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression, and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States:....
[UNQUOTE]

The United States of America who were not in rebellion fought to preserve the perpetual union and subsequently also fought to abolish slavery after the rebellion had been suppressed and the perpetual union restored.


31 posted on 03/07/2015 2:59:55 PM PST by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

I cannot find an Article XIII to the Constitution of the United States of America. Are you claiming one?

Because what you are quoting is the Articles of Confederation of the 13 original British colonies of America, formed when they were in rebellion against the Kingdom of Great Britain and had declared their independence.

My understanding is that the Constitution of the United States superseded the Articles of Confederation. Is that wrong?


34 posted on 03/07/2015 3:19:30 PM PST by Alas Babylon! (As we say in the Air Force, "You know you're over the target when you start getting flak!")
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To: WhiskeyX

The United states under the constitution was not founded as a perpetual union. It was the union under the articles of confederation that was styled as perpetual, but that union was dissolved. The delegates, whose job was to amend the articles, created an entire new constitution, which many of the states then proceeded to join by seceding from the old union. The old union and the new one were not the same, and coexisted simultaneously for some years, as not all the states joined the new union at once (several waited several years before joining and remained during that time under the laws of the confederation). The new union was not styled as perpetual. After all they had styled the last one as perpetual and it proved to not be so, so why make the same mistake again?


50 posted on 03/08/2015 7:40:40 AM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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