Posted on 05/12/2015 6:54:49 AM PDT by thackney
You expect a certain sort of magic from a car like Toyota's Mirai, the world's first mass-market, hydrogen-powered all-electric named after the Japanese word for "future." It maxes out at 300 miles, refuels in five minutes and spits out zero emissions except for water, all for tens of thousands of dollars less than Tesla's electric Model S.
But behind the wheel of the four-door Mirai, which California drivers can buy in October for around $50,000, what you get is something much more, well, boring: a smooth, quiet, mid-size sedan you wouldn't find out of place in a school pick-up circle. And that's what makes it so fascinating.
Toyota let us test-drive one of its prototypes this week, and it became clear why one of the world's biggest automakers is making a huge bet on hydrogen as a future fuel for the world's roads. The Mirai is responsive, futuristic, fully featured and fun to drive, the kind of car you can see beating gas guzzlers at their own game.
But the Mirai's journey to automotive acceptance is already dotted with a number of potholes, not the least of which is criticism from the most notable face in electric cars, Tesla founder Elon Musk, who has called hydrogen fuel cells "extremely silly," fool cells" and "bulls--t" (more on that in a minute)...
That helps get the Mirai up to a maximum driving range of around 300 miles, enough so that the typical driver wouldn't suffer "range anxiety" on a daily commute....
But opening up a number of hydrogen stations won't be easy, or cheap: Outfitting a single station for driver-ready hydrogen could cost about $1 million. Battery-powered, plug-in cars have a similar problem, though they can at least connect to the electric grid. There's nothing like that for hydrogen.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Well, whether they ACTUALLY are better for the environment is irrelevant.
The only thing that is relevant is liberal self-righteousness.
And they don’t even have to own one. They just have to be in favor of people driving them.
Thanks for the update. I once thought that the Volt might have had a future once a better source of power for the generators was practical. Now it is just a plug in Prius at near double the cost. How uninteresting.
Only available as hydrogen fuel after you separate the carbon in the hydrocarbon molecules. Steam-reforming of natural gas will produce hydrogen, but at a far lower efficiency than using the natural gas as fuel in the first place.
Unless you use taxpayer dollars, it won't make economic sense to use hydrogen as fuel.
And all they need is more tax payer dollars to work out the “bugs” for commercial production...
I have no problem with any of these technologies as long as the government is not forcing them on us and a free market is determining what is being offered and at what price.
Double the cost?
Prius starts at $24,200
Volt starts at $26,670
http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html
I have an idea:
Remove ALL subsidies and see what winner private capital and good old-fashioned entrepreneurial spirit produces...
...rather than the current model of government funding losing ventures for emotional & political gain at taxpayer expense.
Absolutely. Treat all industries the same. No government selections of winners and losers.
If the byproduct is water, in the Winter, the byproduct would be ice. What could possibly go wrong with thousands of hydrogen cars laying down layers of ice on the road?
It is vapor, not liquid.
The Chevy’s price has an asterisk, “price after tax credit”. If the Prius qualifies for the same credit, it isn’t mention on the page you linked to. I may also be thinking of the cost of the Volt I, which I believe cost more than 40K before tax credit. If this new one is less expensive (and a more conventional hybrid), my apologies.
I support government subsidies b/c I see it as a national security issue: we need to break our dependence on foreign imported oil.
America’s national security is far too important to be left in the hands of the markets.
Federal Tax Credit Plug-in hybrid-electric vehicles
http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxphevb.shtml
http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/phevtech.shtml
The tax credit for series versus parallel hybrids are different. With the 2016 models, the credits will be the same category.
Having the government select which technology to subsidize is not the best means of energy independence.
It is more likely to make us worse than better.
Shutting down the economy to save the snails will ensue that there will be no real advances toward more efficient power sources, and more efficient i.e. cheaper power is the necessary goal, not greener or more politically friendly but only more efficient energy. Eating up assets to produce nonviable or less efficient energy simply delays the time or prevents it altogether when we transition to that next step of practical and cheap Fusion or something totally else.
You are 100% correct.......!!!!!
I had one of those mine was read....I beat that thing into the ground....hauling copper from tear-offs and 3 union buddies from Cape cod to the Boston area M-F....lasted about two years....I’m glad i got it for nothing.
I don't think the efficiency is all that much lower...even with the steam reforming step. It's better than gasoline. Not quite as good as with burning of methane directly.
But, it matters not. There is NO WAY we're going to pump hydrogen everywhere for distribution centers. It's just too difficult and dangerous to handle.
The problems you describe all contribute to the losses of the hydrogen fuel system. Losses are not counted only at the vehicle. The losses in energy need to be included from the formation, storage, transportation and distribution of the hydrogen as well.
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