LIVE THREAD: United States Senate debate over NSA Survelliance

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[varina davis]

I hear you, Georgis Girl 2

[Repeal The 17th]

After midnight, we’re gonna let it all hang down.

[onyx]

AFTER MIDNIGHT: FREEDOM TO CHAT WITHOUT NSA TRACKING!

[KoRn]

So when is the big ‘false Flag’ attack?

[dfwgator]

Riiiiiight, as if that’s gonna stop the NSA.

[NYRepublican72]

The government has no business collecting American’s phone data without a warrant. I don’t care if it’s meta-data or whatever they claim.

Citizens have a right against search and seizure without probable cause.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

The government has no business collecting American’s phone data without a warrant. I don’t care if it’s meta-data or whatever they claim.

So the Government, instead of just taking one step when they have the warrant, got to take 2 steps. At Verizon Wireless where I worked, I had all your phone records a click away. Customers have access to all their call history going back to the beginning. Law enforcement had a special number they had to call to get access. They probably had to fax over the warrant.

So, now you're phone calls aren't collected, but now, with the provisions that have expired, the CIA/FBI is going to have a harder time getting warrants and tracking terrorists who frequently change their cell phone devices.

Great job, you accomplished a lot.

[Repeal The 17th]

GET A WARRANT.

What we know:
Information on every phone call was (is?) being collected
with a promise (cough cough) that no one will look at it
unless somebody thinks you might be “up to something”:
caller’s #;
recipient’s #;
time call placed;
length of call;
location of caller (via cell tower);
location of recipient (via cell tower).

Many just shrug their shoulders and say,
“Well, if you aren’t doing anything wrong,
then you don’t have anything to worry about.”
-
OK
Let’s put tracking devices in everyone’s vehicles,
and record where you go, how long you are there,
how fast you drive, how hard you brake, etc.,
with a promise (cough cough) that no one will look at it
unless somebody thinks you might be “up to something”.

Not a problem?
“Well, if you aren’t doing anything wrong,
then you don’t have anything to worry about.”
-
How about this?
Let’s put a camera in your home and record everything
that goes on and upload it to the cloud,
with a promise (cough cough) that no one will look at it
unless somebody thinks you might be “up to something”.

Not a problem?
“Well, if you aren’t doing anything wrong,
then you don’t have anything to worry about.”
-
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
houses, papers, and effects,
against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,
supported by Oath or affirmation,
and particularly describing the place to be searched,
and the persons or things to be seized.

[RedHeeler]

Wow. You’re allowed to brag about being a Gov’t agent?

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

What we know: Information on every phone call was (is?) being collected with a promise (cough cough) that no one will look at it unless somebody thinks you might be “up to something”:

It's not a promise, it's written into the law, and that requires a warrant. The law specifically targets people who are suspected of being involved in the planning or carrying out of terrorist attacks. It's not vague over who is being targeted.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Former Verizon Wireless employees are government agents? OK.

[RedHeeler]

Cooperating companies, and their functionaries- absolutely.

[WTFOVR]

Ditto - Point well expressed.

And, lets not forget, the issue that led to the Islamic attacks of September 11, 2001 - the FBI and CIA could not share information, due to a policy “wall” that was established by the Democrats - who then had the chutzpah to criticize both agencies for not sharing information! ... Oh, and also for reason of the philandering coward who occupied the Oval Office prior to GWB - the guy who had OBL offered on a silver platter, but refused to take action for fear that non-combatants might get killed ... and so he set the stage for 3000+ non-combatants to be slaughtered.

Now, those are the facts that led to the worst attack on American soil since December 7, 1941 ...

Funny how, notwithstanding the destructive actions of the Clintons and the Democrats in general, we did just fine without NSA sticking a microscope up every American citizen’s butt. Funny too, how the NSA has not prevented one single terrorist attempt since 9/11/2001. Rather, the work of ordinary American citizens is what has stopped Muslim dogs form completing their plans.

Of course, with Obama aiding and abetting ISIS, and then all but building a nuclear bomb for Iran, I doubt that vigilance on the part of the average American citizen will save our butts from something worse than 9/11... But then I fully expect the police state mentality of certain dimwits around here will fault our dissing the NSA’s fishing expedition - when the blame rightly belongs to Barack Hussein Obama and his acts of perfidy and treason.

[Repeal The 17th]

“...it’s written into the law...”
-
You can just go ahead on and trust the fedgov
to “do the right thing” if you want to.
Oh, no, the IRS did not target the Tea party, right?
Which are you, a socialist or a communist?
You sure as hell ain’t no dang conservative.
I was conceived in liberty, how about you?
You either follow The Constitution, or you don’t.
You don’t get to make your own convenient exceptions.
-
“They, that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
~Benjamin Franklin~

[WTFOVR]

Ever read that memorandum, put out by the DHS a few years back, that defines who the “terrorists” are? Pretty much any American who: opposes the Obama Administration, supports the original intent of the U.S.Constitution, opposes abortion, holds strong moral principles or reads the Bible, has firearms, stocks up ammunition, food or other supplies, or has served in the military!

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

You can just go ahead on and trust the fedgov to “do the right thing” if you want to.

Notice that your argument presupposes a violation of the law, but, for some reason, blames the law.

Got any examples of this violation actually happening though?

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Ever read that memorandum, put out by the DHS a few years back, that defines who the “terrorists” are?

If a Judge is passing warrants against Tea Party folks for no reason, that would be very interesting.

[Repeal The 17th]

You are one of those people who finds themselves
in a hole and just keeps on digging, right?

Please tell me why you think it is OK
for the fedgov to keep records about what you are doing
without first obtaining a warrant?

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Please tell me why you think it is OK for the fedgov to keep records about what you are doing without first obtaining a warrant?

First point: There is more to the Patriot Act than gathering metadata. An attack on all of the Patriot Act is ridiculous. 2nd, because I know how useless those records are if they are attempting to abuse them. No one is listening to your calls. No one is going through 10 million calls a day to comment on how you're calling the number of a woman at night who is not your wife. Next, because I know that the government isn't looking at my phone records except by warrant according to the law. Last, because I know that if there is an ongoing terrorist attack occurring in the United States, Americans will die waiting for Verizon Wireless or AT&T to send over data.

[Repeal The 17th]

“...the government isn’t looking at my phone records
except by warrant according to the law...”
-
BUT they HAVE possession of all of your phone records
WITHOUT having a warrant.

Keep digging your hole.