Angry US Republicans Tell Pope Francis To ‘Stick With His Job And We’ll Stick With Ours’

The Guardian ^ | 13 June 2015 | Suzanne Goldenberg

[FredZarguna]

That reference is probably too obscure for this pope.

[FredZarguna]

That would be in keeping with the tradition from which he comes.

[FredZarguna]

Concern for the poor doesn't extend to advocating that corrupt men with gun thugs should be allowed to force you to give money to them. You're confused about the difference between charity and coercion.

The most charitable interpretation of his papacy is that Francis is similarly befuddled. But I doubt he is. He knows that first century Christians were not advocating what he is advocating, and he also knows that a few misplaced quotes about them will go a long way in convincing soft-headed morons that all he is interested in is a "preferential option for the poor."

[x]

That reference is probably too obscure for this pope.

Sorry, but that's a stupid comment.

Whatever you think of his views, after hearing the liturgy for over seventy years the Pope knows his scripture by now.

[MDLION]

I was responding to the first words of Paladin2 in post 9 which my post 17 clearly shows at the top.

Instead of giving wild opinions about the Pope being a Communist or the False Prophet, I give some of his actual words about Communism and the poor, which tie in with the subject of environmentalism, and I’m the one not speaking to the subject of the thread?

[MDLION]

“The Pope doesn’t seem to be in favor of Personal Liberty.”

You’ll have to be more specific because that’s what liberals also say to me when I express Pro-Life and Pro-Traditional Marriage positions, that I’m against freedom.

[kenmcg]

Granted the Pope is considered a Holy Man, but he sure isn’t the brightest light.

[MDLION]

“Concern for the poor doesn’t extend to advocating that corrupt men with gun thugs should be allowed to force you to give money to them.”

You accuse Francis of advocating armed robbery and I’m “confused”?Specific quote please. And don’t give me opinions of him being in favor of liberation theology but give me specific quotes where he specifically advocates or praises it.

[FredZarguna]

Sorry, but the stupid is stronger with you.

First of all, how much actual scripture is in the liturgy? I sat through mass for the the first twenty four years of my life and never once heard the verse referred to by the OP. NEVER. ONCE. I did hear the same traditions, and a few bits of the Bible repeated, over, and over, and over again. And no doubt if I'd stuck with it for seventy years, I'd have heard the same thing a lot more. But I doubt I would have heard any new references I hadn't heard a thousand times before.

If you're confused about what scripture you hear on Sundays, have a look here. Then come back and tell me about it. http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Biblical-Mass-Texts.htm

Second, and far more importantly, this pope appears not to understand that the substance of the question put to Christ and his answer is not even about money at all. It's about the fact that Jesus and his followers are not supposed to be of this world. Getting involved in disputes about controversial scientific public policy issues has nothing to do with an institution that [at least at one time] claimed to be rooted in Eternity.

[Lazamataz]

Sorry. You’re not responding to the subject of the thread. The Pope’s comments in no way have anything to do with ‘environmentalism’ in any way. He speaks to the viewpoint of helping the poor — a viewpoint I agree with, so long as the State is not involved — and not to the topic of manmade global warming.

[dila813]

Growing up in the North-East, Going to the Church was a community networking function not a religious worship.

They believe in one thing, that they have to see and be seen who is going to their Church and to keep up respectability with their extended family.

This isn’t to say these people don’t believe in God, most of them most certainly do.

One of the reasons that you see Church attendance fall off in the Catholic Church is the fragmentation of multi-generational neighborhoods and the number of jobs that allow us to be socially isolated most of the day.

These people in this category don’t fully understand their own religion and are easily swayed to vote Democrat. If they knew their own religion, they might still vote Democrat but they have a lot harder time pulling that lever and usually show up to confession the next Sunday reporting it as a sin.

[MDLION]

“he sure isn’t the brightest light”

Yes, his Master’s Degree in Chemistry, his degrees in philosophy and theology, his teaching of literature and psychology at the college level, and his ability to speak Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, French, German, Ukranian, Piedmontese, Latin, and English show him to be one of the dimmer bulbs on the planet.

[MDLION]

Let me repeat, I was responding to Paladin2’s comment in post 9 about the Pope being a “Marxist”.

[ansel12]

As the decades pass and I watch them, I think that the Catholic vote reflects what their European leadership wants.

I think that when Rome balances what they gain in America, between the two parties, that they see the balance lean toward the democrats as being best for their long term goals, and always have.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

“[C]oncern for the poor is in the Gospel, it is within the tradition of the Church, it is not an invention of communism, and it must not be turned into an ideology ... [C]oncern (for the poor). ... stems from the Gospel and is documented even from the first centuries of Christianity. If I repeated some passages from the homilies of the Church Fathers, in the second or third century, about how we must treat the poor, some would accuse me of giving a Marxist homily.

Yes, "The Gospel" is talking directly to you, and "The Church"...not the US Taxpayers.

St. John Chrysostom stated that ‘not sharing your goods with the poor means robbing and taking away their life.’”
- Pope Francis

Right...so just how much gold and cash do you have laying around there in the Vatican, and why are you not buying the poor a bunch of Popophones?

[Lazamataz]

Marxism comes in several forms.

[Clemenza]

Humanity would be better off if all who followed what this Argie dimwit say go drink a cyanide-laced beverage.

[NELSON111]

Some here will follow this Pope straight to hell. Concern for the poor IS in the Gospel...but so is the Gospel. Jesus alone...and helping the poor is NEVER taught to be a function of church and state together. That is a product of the marriage of the early church and state...which is an abomination.

[FredZarguna]

"There was the promise that once the glass had become full it would overflow and the poor would benefit. But what happens is that when it's full to the brim, the glass magically grows, and thus nothing ever comes out for the poor"

This statement is objectively false. It shows that Franny is, if not a Marxist, at the very least a dope. No system has ever elevated the poor except capitalism.

It also betrays a clear insinuation that we need to create an economy where "the poor" get a share of the wealth they've been denied. How do you think that's going to be enforced? Or are you as naive as the pope? But it gets worse. Read on.

"The ideology of Marxism is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don't feel offended,"

So, Frankyboy is not offended to be associated with the acolytes of an ideology that has oppressed, tortured, and murdered more people than any other in history?

Good to know.

Substitute the word "Nazi" for "Marxist" in this inane piffle. As abominable as the former is, it's actually less reprehensible than the latter. Then get back to me about how wonderful the pope is.

The pope describes "a murderous economy of exclusion and inequality." Is he referring to the billions squandered on African kleptocrats so they fatten their Swiss bank accounts and can buy more guns to oppress their people? Apparently not, because they aren't mentioned in Evangelii Gaudium. At. All.

Is he talking about the Marxist President of his own country, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner? She's done a great job of income redistribution, hasn't she? Is that despicable low-life murderer a "wonderful person," too?

When you full-throatedly accept the association, you also accept the guilt thereby.

"Just as the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality. "

"Economy of exclusion and inequality." That's pure Marxist drivel. If you can't hear it, get a hearing aid, because that's not a dog whistle, that's communist ideology being shouted right in your face.

And "thou shalt not" to the economy? What is the alternative? The pope doesn't say, "Christians who live in wealthy countries and enjoy the benefits of capitalism have an obligation to charity." No. He blames "the economic system," to which we need to say "no."

You need to come to terms with reality and actually read what the pope has written and said with a free, honest mind. Read it as if it was written by Gustavo Gutiérrez, and not by the head of your church.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

“In the US for the past 10 years we have allowed climate change to become an ideological political issue instead of being the moral issue that it is,” said the Rev Mitchell Hescox, leader of the Evangelical Environmental Network. “The idea that climate change is a liberal issue has just permeated the thought of those in the conservative movement, and those in the denier campaign have taken advantage of that to continue to drive home the message that climate change is not a moral issue,” added Hescox, who identifies himself as a conservative.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded. Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite. - Eisenhower’s Farewell Address

The natural disposition is always to believe. It is acquired wisdom and experience only that teach incredulity, and they very seldom teach it enough. The wisest and most cautious of us all frequently gives credit to stories which he himself is afterwards both ashamed and astonished that he could possibly think of believing. - Adam Smith, Theory of Moral Sentiments

Hescox "identifies himself as a conservative.” No doubt he is so, on some or even many issues. On this, though, I’m quite confident that he is mistaken. Or else more honest in his description of the anti progress dogma which is normally fobbed off as “progressive.” It is, after all, “conservative” - if the word has any meaning at all. But the conventional meaning, in America, of “conservative” is actually in favor of “the progress of science and useful arts” which the Constitution authorizes Congress “to promote.”

The article talks about all the positives attributed to fossil fuels, carefully tarring them with the ad hominem that their authors are funded by oil companies lest the reader be “deceived” by their factual accuracy. Allowing the use of oil, gas, and coal to promote the general welfare worldwide is progressive, seeking to forbid it is arch-conservative.