U.S. stockpiles powerful bunker-buster bombs in case Iran nuclear talks fail

Los Angeles Times ^ | July 3, 2015 | By W.J. Hennigan

[Brad from Tennessee]

As diplomats rush to reach an agreement to curb Iran's nuclear program, the U.S. military is stockpiling conventional bombs so powerful that strategists say they could cripple Tehran's most heavily fortified nuclear complexes, including one deep underground.

The bunker-busting bombs are America's most destructive munitions short of atomic weapons. At 15 tons, each is 5 tons heavier than any other bomb in the U.S. arsenal.

In development for more than a decade, the latest iteration of the MOP — massive ordnance penetrator — was successfully tested on a deeply buried target this year at the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. The test followed upgrades to the bomb's guidance system and electronics to stop jammers from sending it off course.

U.S. officials say the huge bombs, which have never been used in combat, are a crucial element in the White House deterrent strategy and contingency planning should diplomacy go awry and Iran seek to develop a nuclear bomb.

Obama has made it clear that he has no desire to order an attack, warning that U.S. airstrikes on Iran's air defense network and nuclear facilities would spark a destabilizing new war in the Middle East, and would only delay Iran by several years should it choose to build a bomb.

"A military solution will not fix it," Obama told Israeli TV on June 1. An attack "would temporarily slow down an Iranian nuclear program, but it will not eliminate it."

[Hulka]

Okay.

[Hulka]

If allowed to be employed correctly, we can essentially stop the Iranian nuke program. Not destroy it but stop it.

The MOP is one heck of a weapon. Seen it during testing. Awsome capability and very ‘smart’ when it comes to weapons effects.

If we run in and “MOP” ‘em and while we are there we knock the pee outta their “leadership” (political and military), and then leave with a warning that we will come back and drop more on their head if they don't knock it off. . .and NOT care if they collapse and NOT do the usual re-built them after we destroy them.

But that's just me. . .

[Flash Bazbeaux]

“the MOP — massive ordnance penetrator “

No way Obama, the first black president, is going to use a MOP.

[sport]

Unless it is on us. FWIW, Bill Clinton was the first black president.

[Hawthorn]

>> The average Nazi factory was back up producing war materiel two days after an air strike <<

Sure. But that was about 65 years before our bombs had GPS guidance. Today, the outcome would be a totally different story from that of World War II.

[Vinnie]

Give them to Israel, they will use them.

Along with the mothballed F-117s.

[G Larry]

The ignorance of the LAT.

Bunker busters are useless on Iran targets either due to depth or proximity to cities.

[TXnMA]

"Strategic Bombing doesn’t work."

Nothing like living in the past, there, Charles!

In WWII, the AAF was happy with a 3 MILE CEP.

In 1991 we recorded a 10 FOOT CEP with Paveway kits on dumb bombs.

These MOPs (with references to "jamming") are, obviously JDAM (GPS-guided) variants -- and, you can bet they will be well inside the GWI CEP.

(That's Iran's "Fordow" centrifugal enrichment plant BTW...)

There's no doubt that we can pick which tunnel entrance to fly a TLAM into -- or put a MOP right where the main centrifuge rooms are located underground. And it doesn't take a whole lot of seismic shock to put lots of centrifuges (and personnel) out of operation...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Catch up with the times, FRiend!

[TXnMA]

My # 48 is in close agreement with you.

Heck, anyone who watched "Shock & Awe" during GWII should have a pretty good idea of what modern "strategic bombing" looks like...

[Carry_Okie]

If allowed to be employed correctly, we can essentially stop the Iranian nuke program. Not destroy it but stop it.

I've read up on this a bit to see if things have really changed. We're talking about one facility in a mountain, a model I thought I had thought Iran had chucked a long time ago. If they simply go for distributed processing (lots of mountains), that 'MOP' strategy goes away because we will lack sufficient intelligence with which to manage sufficient targets over time, particularly with all the international blowback there will be after the first strike. We may then slow it, but not stop it. So at this point, that part of the war is a matter of how much money Iran can amass to 'mass produce' nuclear production facilities. Fortunately for them, the US and Turkey appear to be coming to their aid by taking the Kurds out of their path to the Mediterranean. Bizzarro.

Your suggestion about the leadership is more to the point but has its own blowback. Once we start a "take off the head" strategy with nations, that game is on against us too (not that it isn't to a degree already). Such would probably be a good thing temporarily, in that we might be better off without DC for a while with our government distributed all over the country, but it is in some respects easier to keep tabs on our enemies with them all in one place. Representation might get better if the people know where their representatives live and have them within easy reach. Heck, they could even build a "Senator's mansion," complete with a tree or lamp-post in front by way of suggestion. :-)

Leviathan become goo. Sigh.

[xzins]

snowball’s chance in hell....

[Uncle Miltie]

For use on Israel.

[Fhios]

Pretty well sums up the situation.

LA staff writer wanted an easy week ... phone in to the administration and get a shovel ready story for the day.

[Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America]

Suddenly 0bama is O’bomba? I doubt it. He couldn’t even order a response in Benghazi, let alone Iran.

[Hulka]

Not exactly. . .

[Hulka]

I see your point about decapitation. . .a thing that Carter was into and by default we kept going. Decapitation is deemed ineffective in a war because you take out those political leaders and military commanders that can make the decision to sue for peace. Maybe.

However, with Iran, they are not civilized and the usual rationale doesn't really apply anymore because the Iranians would be dismantled from a pol-mil perspective and be placed in a situation where internal turmoil (power struggles) would ensue and internal deaths, assassinations, imprisonments, etc. . .those would stop them in their tracks for a long time as they try and establish another regime.

Unlike the civilized world where if decapitation takes place the chain of command would reach down however far it needs to (and takes some time), the Iranians have no such organization and a food-fight would surely begin and last until “they” establish their own, new power structure.

Any air strikes of any kind rely on accurate Intel, and I wager that if we ran MOP missions and a few select strike missions against leadership, we would see a lot of defections and others coming forward with Intel.

Besides, who do you think is building those complexes? We have Intel feeds from those countries that have the blue-prints and we can know how they are built and where their weak points are. . .and heck, we know where their entrances are and we can easily use MOP to drop the cave, close the entrances, basically shut them down without totally destroying the entire complex. . .stopping the program by suffocating the workers, technicians and scientists by burying them for decades under the rubble of a cave entrance, rubble that can extend down and out for a very long distance.

Just my thoughts.

[Hulka]

Great minds and all that. . .

;-)

[Carry_Okie]

However, with Iran, they are not civilized and the usual rationale doesn't really apply anymore because the Iranians would be dismantled from a pol-mil perspective and be placed in a situation where internal turmoil (power struggles) would ensue and internal deaths, assassinations, imprisonments, etc. . .those would stop them in their tracks for a long time as they try and establish another regime.

Allow me a citation to demonstrate the inefficacy of that strategy: Libya.

As a result, thousands of MANPADS have been distributed worldwide by now, a whirlwind we have yet to reap, perhaps in the NextGen, so to speak.

No, that wasn't a joke or typo. The NextGen Air Traffic Control System being implemented in CONUS mandates that commercial aircraft line up in narrow corridors during entry to airports. Fly low and slow like ducks in a row!

See tag line.

[Hulka]

Aware of NextGen and its plan.

Actually, my understanding is NextGen means aircraft, too include an entire aspect devoted to UAVs, means there would be no established corridors, that aircraft/air platforms would fly the most efficient profiles and that includes vectoring on-to short finals from all directions. . .as opposed to what you are describing that happens today and has been for decades (”aircraft line up in narrow corridors during entry to airports. Fly low and slow like ducks in a row!”).

Nonetheless, Libya is indeed a valid point. However, the way I see it is MANPADs and nukes are totally different; meaning lots of conventional arms might start flowing from Iran (like the former USSR or,as you said, Libya), but those are not here (southern border openness notwithstanding). Most illegal unrestricted conventional arms make their way to the mid-east and Africa, with a substantial portion headed to the Balkans. China and Russia and such buy limited amounts for exploitation purposes.

When it comes to nukes, not much by way of customer base for nukes that are not completed. . .yet.

Of course, that leaves the threat of a dirty bomb and one hopes out classified detection systems, both terrestrial and from space, would place us in a position for interception well before one shows up in New York Norfolk, Long Beach, where ever. . .

Appreciate the civil exchange, by the way. Refreshing. (You sound an awful lot like a friend of mine from Edmond, OK. Is that you?

[Carry_Okie]

Actually, my understanding is NextGen means aircraft, too include an entire aspect devoted to UAVs, means there would be no established corridors, that aircraft/air platforms would fly the most efficient profiles and that includes vectoring on-to short finals from all directions. . . as opposed to what you are describing that happens today and has been for decades (”aircraft line up in narrow corridors during entry to airports. Fly low and slow like ducks in a row!”).

This is a big issue in our neighborhood, as the aircraft going into SFO used to take random paths into the TCA. No more. Since last March, it's now low and slow, 24-7, right over a very expensive neighborhood in rugged mountains with lots of remote roads with easy escape routes. It's perfect.

Most illegal unrestricted conventional arms make their way to the mid-east and Africa, with a substantial portion headed to the Balkans.

True and granted. Most, but guaranteed not all. The bang for buck is here. It wouldn't take much to make for pretty serious havoc.

Appreciate the civil exchange, by the way. Refreshing.

I don't at all mind an intelligent disagreement. We are dealing in uncertainties here.

Is that you?

Nope, see FR page.