The article is indeed interesting...reads very much like a polemic wrapped in footnotes. The design? To attempt to denigrate Luther's contributions to Christianity.
Not a mention of Hus, either.
Posted on 07/06/2015 2:23:38 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
Amen to those coming to Christ, it’s encouraging to see in these terrible days.
Yeah, I guess the RCE was really keen on bringing the Bible out of the monastery down to the common man’s vernacular so he could read it for himself....
Oh, wait....
“Then in the 1400s, was the Roman church just fine with the common man reading the Bible on his own?”
Obviously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_translations_into_Czech
“In 1487 the printing press was set up at Prague, and the following year the Czech Bible was first printed.” “Czech”, The Encyclopedia Americana, Volume 5, edited by Frederick Converse Beach, George Edwin Rines.
“Yeah, I guess the RCE was really keen on bringing the Bible out of the monastery down to the common man’s vernacular so he could read it for himself.... Oh, wait....”
Much of the Bible always existed in the vernacular. Most Protestants live in a twilight world of myths regarding Bible translation in the Middle Ages and Early Modern Period.
http://www.jhsonline.org/cocoon/JHS/a115.html
“I’m sure a lot more Cathars got slaughtered than Catholics.”
Since the crusade was AGAINST them - and successful, yes. And, if it did not turn out that way, there would have been no Christianity in Europe after them.
The article is indeed interesting...reads very much like a polemic wrapped in footnotes. The design? To attempt to denigrate Luther's contributions to Christianity.
Not a mention of Hus, either.
Well, the quote is almost certainly apocryphal. But the legend caught on because the anti-Cathar crusade was so brutal.
The basic problem was that the Cathars were a death cult, holding that the greatest sanctifying act was to starve yourself to death. But death cults usually die out pretty quickly, right? Well, in the case of the Cathars they taught that supporting the “perfectoi” was also a means of “lesser” salvation. Thus, the German mercenaries were shocked at the fact that the apparently Catholic broader population supported the perfectoi militarily.
Thus, real or not, the quote reflected the fact that Crusade had turned from being a liberation of people from a death cult into a foreign invasion of one Catholic people by another.
Yes. They thought the material world was evil.
>> Then in the 1400s, was the Roman church just fine with the common man reading the Bible on his own? <<
Yes. That’s why there was a bible on public display in every church. Now, it’s true that these were almost all in Latin, but at the time, anyone who could read did so in Latin, not the vernacular. Vernacular writing was mostly used solely for recording verbal communication.
“Remember all the monies the popes spent getting the Bible out to the peasants?”
How many peasants could read in the Middle Ages?
“The design? To attempt to denigrate Luther’s contributions to Christianity.”
His only contribution was heresy.
“Not a mention of Hus, either.”
Why would there be one since the article was largely about German Bibles. Hus spoke Czech. You really don’t know much about these things do you?
being unfamiliar with all translations, I can’t approve of disapprove them all
there are more accurate translations than Tyndales
:)
Ahhh, no. The Moravian Church--which founded Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, and Salem (of Winston-Salem) North Carolina have a good claim to be direct descendants of the original Hussites--pushed underground by Roman Catholic persecution, which continued into the 18th Century. Czech Hussites immigrated across the border into Protestant Saxony, Germany, where the refugees stayed on the estate of Count Zinzendorf, a noble who was also an ordained Lutheran minister, founding the town of Herrnhut (The Lord's House).
Zinzendorf helped them get organized, and became the lead Bishop in the Moravian Church (even while never denouncing his Lutheran orders)--and gave oversight to an amazing work by the Holy Spirit, moving the Moravian Church community to do amazing things--like a tiny community sending the 1st Protestant missionaries to the literal ends of the Earth...in the mid 1700s.
Mission Churches were established in the Aleutian islands, the South Pacific, and many other far-flung places--as well as numerous missions to the American Indians in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and North Carolina.
A 24 hour prayer chain lasted for 100 years....and at their peak, fully 1/3 of the Moravian brethren were missionaries--while 2/3 worked in Church owned factories in Saxony to support them.
Moravian worship and doctrine are distinct, and not identical to standard Lutheranism--though traditional Moravian belief accepts Protestant essentials. Education has always been important to the Moravians (eg. the famous "Moravian Star" was developed as a math-lesson in the mid 1800s).
So no, the Hussites didn't just become extinct.
Actually in England, it was highly illegal—a death penalty offence, to have the bible in the vernacular—which is why Wycliff’s followers, the Lollards, (who influenced Hus) were severely persecuted.
Such persecution for vernacular bibles was not universal in Europe it is true—but in English history, it was very true.
In fact, Henry VIII—yes the one who broke with Rome—had the translater of the 1st English bible translated from Greek and Hebrew, one William Tyndale, executed in Belgium no less, where he was in hiding—for the “crime” of translating the bible.
Thanks for that - I know quite a bit about the Moravians after they founded Bethlehem, but did not know about this part of the story.
I am in Prague right now, it’s a National Holiday here.
I can't find an ecumenical council in 1405.
I'm not certain it is the same council to which you refer, but the source posted below at #14 by SoFloFreeper gives a very different picture:
In November 1414, the Council of Constance assembled, and Huss was urged by Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund to come and give an account of his doctrine. Because he was promised safe conduct, and because of the importance of the council (which promised significant church reforms), Huss went. When he arrived, however, he was immediately arrested, and he remained imprisoned for months. Instead of a hearing, Huss was eventually hauled before authorities in chains and asked merely to recant his views.
Cordially,
Moravians represent Bohemian protestantism, and in that way Hus is historically significant to them, but they are NOT Hussite in theology, ecclesiology or polity. There is in fact a Czech Hussite church which was established after World War One, and is now the largest Czech Protestant church.
>> Actually in England, it was highly illegal—a death penalty offence, to have the bible in the vernacular <<
Ahh... no. Not at all. Wycliff was funded by the British Parlaiment. The origin of the “bible is illegal” legend is that the Tyndale bible was prohibited, not because it was in the vernacular, but because it contained patently false claims in the interlinear notes.
Not only was the bible in English NOT prohibited, but Catholics gave their lives to bring the Douay-Rheims bible into England.
Not an ecumenical council. A mere synod. A biennial one, where he was encouraged to urge for the purification of the priesthood.
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