Posted on 07/14/2015 5:15:41 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Lemme put it another way: the Holy Spirit never promised to keep the Pope from acting “inappropriately”. That’s the most respectful way I can put it.
That’s bad advice.
But it’s yours.
Dunno how often that should be said before it sinks in. One might think the apparent glee the "traditionalists" around here and elsewhere seemingly derive from the Pope's missteps would disavow anyone of such a notion.
Once you allow gay child molesters in the Church hierarchy, it’s over.
Where there are institutions that feature adults working with youngsters, there are going to be molesters...regardless of the denominational stripe, or lack of same...think public schools, if you want a prime example of this at work...
Well, all this is well and goid, except for the fact that THE POPE DID NOT TAKE IT TO ROME!!!!!!! (Sorry for “shouting”—I can’t do the code stuff on the iPod.)
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-sudamerica-42284/
The Pope basically treated the gifts as an embarrassment to the Bolivians. He indicates that he was grateful to receive a gift, but was never happy about it, then he left the gift in a chapel, offered to Mary. He acted the way a mother would to receive a totally inappropriate gift from a child who knows no better: she loves the child, but hates the present.
Maybe, but break-off movements don’t tend to solve anything. This kind of rot spreads faster in small denominations than large ones.
And we Catholics do not have a break-off mindset either. It’s much more in our nature to stay, pray, and fight, and weather whatever storms we have to until things get back to the way it should be. In the midst of the worst filth, corruption, heresy, simony, scandal, you name it, God raises up saints.
One would think. But I have said numerous times on here that I can not miss what I never had. I am a post Vat II kid. Not familiar with the Mass that was pre-Vat II and would not have clue what I was supposed to be doing and when. :)
I'm not Catholic but I watch EWTN from time to time because we're supposed to be watchmen when it come to the latter days, and I see no evidence that Catholics are refusing Francis' liberal message.
In Church our disagreements center on emphasis. Example many of us want the Bishops to be more pro-active about abortion, not that any Bishop is pro-abort, but some make it more their emphasis then others. Others want to focus more on the poor and the immigrants. In both cases it really boils down to who we each think should pay for it.
Don’t worry. He is already planning to have Christ stripped off of it.
If you read the latest interviews by Fellay he’s been quite frank about making sure the SSPX does not retain a schismatic/remnant mindset. Seems to me the official policy of the SSPX is not to be a rival to Rome but to be a reminder to Rome of what she believed in years past, with a view toward eventual reconciliation.
So I’m not sure Fellay would at all agree with the characterization of the SSPX as an “alternative” to Rome.
Christ's Church is where two or more are gathered in His name, as Christ said. Christ renamed Simon "Cephas" ("Peter","rock") because Peter announced that Christ was the Son of God and that is the rock of Christianity that the gates of hell cannot not prevail against. Christ's rock is certainly not the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is one of the aspects of the gates of hell that has always tried to prevail against Christ's Church throughout history...killing martyrs, burning bibles, keeping the people illiterate, taking their money, etc.
Peter never went to Rome. That was Simon Magus, who renamed himself Simon Pater, Pater meaning father ("pope"), to go to Rome imitate Peter after Peter rebuked him in Samaria for trying to buy his way into an apostleship. Magus was just another of Satan's counterfeits, he's had a lot of them throughout history.
Good point!
Go to the liberal parishes you see, typically, old folks and very few of them
Patently untrue...the suburbs are teeming with liberal parishes and parishioners of all ages...can’t imagine what you are seeing...
Go to a Latin Mass or other orthodox parish and you see young families—BIG families...
Do you not believe that the TLM is the first thing in the crosshairs of Francis’ brood...the bulk of current prelates-and parishioners-absolutely hate it, and all it stands for...which is why I love it...
African Catholics will be there to carry the torch.
Um, please note the last time something originating from the continent of Africa produced anything other than violence and bloodshed...along with ‘torches’ to light rubber tire necklaces...FWIW, I have been saying the next long tenure Pope-clearly not this one-would come from a classic third world country, and bring the final impoverishment of the faith with him...any of the countries in Africa fit that bill nicely...
It's unfortunate to see that the right wing media is just as dishonest and intellectually corrupt as the left wing media. But then what is there to expect? Don't put our faith in men. Here Prager is simply making stuff up: "the pope declares free-market capitalism, the one economic system that has lifted masses of people out of poverty, to be largely evil (“the dung of the devil”)" As you know, the Pope condemned avarice, greed and the idolatry of money, as did all his predecessors and anyone else with any moral sense.
1 Corinthians 5:1-13 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
1 Corinthians 5:1-13 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
That precludes taking communion with someone like that.
2 John 1:4-11 I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father. And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
Titus 1:5-16 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
1 Timothy 3:1-13 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 5:19-24 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Defconw: I was born in 1971 so I'm a Post Vat II kid as well. And trust me--finding the traditional Mass WAS indeed, like missing what I never had. Please, please, please, don't let your unfamiliarity with the liturgy stop you. If you are feeling exasperated with contemporary Catholic life, go find a Latin Mass near you (lots of people here including me, would be happy to help) and you will not regret it.
First time I went was in 1999 or so. Totally clueless. Trying to follow along in the Missal, and parts were totally silent, and I think the dominant feeling was confusion. But my then-girlfriend (now wife) kept bringing me back, and now we have been members of traditional parishes for...what...12 years? We drive an hour each way to get there, but it has been SUCH a blessing for our family.
It's not just an old-fashioned Mass. It's a different *spirituality*, and a far fuller, deeper, richer one than most of us were used to at regular suburban parishes.
Yep. run from your troubles right into the waiting arms of schismatics.
The SSPX practices the Catholic Faith as it was practiced up until 1964...and you call them schismatics...which must mean that you believe all Catholics prior to 1964 to be schismatics as well, if we are to take your statement at any value at all...
So, tell me, according to your beliefs, which of the Saints mentioned in the Litany is not a schismatic, as they were all nurtured under the rubrics of the Faith prior to the mid sixties...?
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