Shashi Tharoor tear apart British colonialism in this Oxford debate

The Political Indian ^ | July 23, 2015 | Shashi Tharoor

[urbanpovertylawcenter]

Brown Rice?

[rbg81]

I have dealt with many Indian students.
My observations:
1. While a few are very smart, most are below average compared to American students. 2. Instead of developing problem solving skills & creativity, they rely on techniques like: rote memorization, plagiarism (cut & paste from Wikipedia) and outright cheating. 3. While they are very polite, they are also quite arrogant and class/race conscious. The politeness helps mask this. It may even be a form of patronization. While I've never been to India, I know many people who have been. It's got a lot of problems. You can put the blame on British colonialism injustices. However, I suspect they would be a lot more backward had it not been for the British Empire. In fact, they could (should) have learned a lot more from the British.

[rbg81]

If you don’t like being colonized, throw off the invaders. Otherwise, STFU and assimilate.

---

So, I guess you’re going to learn to speak Spanish then?

[RoosterRedux]

The Hispanics I know are legal immigrants and are happy to assimilate.

[cold start]

India has not had a single famine since it gained independence in 1947. That was just 4 years after the Great Bengal Famine that is being spoken of. What do you think suddenly brought about that change? Especially if you are arguing that famines were inevitable?

[driftless2]

There was a famine in Bihar in the sixties that thanks to international aid was kept fairly low. Certainly the green revolution and Norman Borlaug saved many millions of people in that part of the world of death by hunger.

You're also overlooking the fact thanks to Gandhi's and Nehru's policy of economic socialism which impoverished the nation worse than before, India was left a destitute third world country.

Only because of that western invention, capitalism, have many millions of Indians finally escaped the terrible poverty of millenia. Many millions are still mired in that kind of poverty and ignorance. But at least now India is making her way and creating wealth.

It was only until about twenty years ago that India redirected its economic fortunes. It now has a burgeoning middle class...something unthinkable one hundred or even fifty years ago. Thanks in no small part to the capitalist policies many which were created in that awful country of Britain.

The biggest tragedy is India has many millions of very intelligent people, who like the people of China, were put in an economic straightjacket by its own rulers.

Not everything Britain did in India was good. Probably many of the English who served in the colonial posts cared little about the welfare of India. But the good it introduced far outweighed the bad.

[cold start]

A couple of thousand dead does not qualify as a major famine and while it was true that American food aid (thanks due to President Lyndon Johnson,following an assessment made by Lester Brown) followed by the Green revolution (credit due to Norman Borlaug) was a hugely important factor, it underlined how a democratic set up could not allow its people to starve (also a major assertion by Amartya Sen that famines don't happen in democracies). My point on the "Great Bengal Famine" & Churchill's culpability on that score still stands. The U.S. President had even then offered to ship grains to Bengal but Churchill did not follow up while he blocked every move by his own officials to try & mitigate the situation. Lord Louis Mountbatten is on record as saying that he diverted ships to India against Churchill's express orders.

The British had been colonial masters for about 200 years when the Great Bengal Famine happened. To suggest that they are blameless in that tragedy is pushing the envelope a bit too far. The economic policies followed by Nehru might not have been the best for India but they certainly didn't cause famine. As for the good of colonialism outweighing the bad, I'm not going to join issue with you about it because different perspectives on different matters can exist. This was just about the British handling of a famine at the fag end of their colonial period.

[vbmoneyspender]

Norman Borlaug

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/news-blog/norman-borlaug-wheat-breeder-who-av-2009-09-14/

[dfwgator]

Back before PC, there was this classic exchange in Fawlty Towers, which they have taken out when they show it nowadays:

The Major: Strange creatures, women. I knew one once... striking-looking girl... tall, you know... father was a banker.

Basil: Really?

The Major: Don’t remember the name of the bank.

Basil: Nevermind.

The Major: I must have been rather keen on her because I took her to see... India!

Basil: India?

The Major: At the Oval... fine match, marvellous finish... now, Surrey had to get thirty-three in about half an hour... she went off to powder her... powder her hands or something... women... er... never came back.

Basil: What a shame.

The Major: And the strange thing was... throughout the morning she kept referring to the Indians as ‘niggers’.

“No no no,” I said, “the niggers are the West Indians............These people are wogs.”

“No, no,” she said. “All cricketers are niggers.”

Basil: They do get awfully confused, don’t they? They’re not thinkers. I see it with Sybil everyday.

The Major: I do wish I could remember her name. She’s still got my wallet.

Basil: As I was saying, no capacity for logical thought.

The Major: Who?

Basil: Women.

The Major: Oh yes, yes... I thought you meant Indians.

[Republic_Venom]

Most in the U.S. have no idea what a Muslim invasion, active or passive, implies. They will soon enough though. India prior to the Muslim invasions was the center of wealth and commerce. Largest liberaries and centers of learning. It all was burnt to the ground.

[Republic_Venom]

Since recorded history, India had more than 25% of all GDP. It all started to change after the British Invasion...it’s just a fact. UK built their empire using India as raw material. But, the Indian’s will have the last laugh.

[Cronos]

Both India and China were invaded by Mongolic peoples in the 1500s-1600s (India by the Moghuls and China by the Jurchen/Manchu), so they were already subjugated by foreigners before the Europeans came (for a person from Maharashtra or Tamil Nadu or Szhenzhen or Guangdong, the Mughals or Manchu were as alien as the English)