Posted on 07/27/2015 6:04:53 PM PDT by Ripliancum
The whole of BSA is becoming an abomination, I'm glad my son didn't have to experience it when we were in Scouting.
"The Church has always welcomed all boys to its Scouting units regardless of sexual orientation."
IoW, Hey, per the Mormon church, it doesn't matter what the "sexual orientation" is of your tentmates on BSA outings.
So, hey the Mormon Church doesn't mind an 18 yo gay Eagle scout sleeping in the same tent as teens. Why would it mind other homosexual men sleeping in that same tent?
Why, you could have a gay leader & an 18 yo gay scout sleeping in the same tent..."consenting" adults...why would the Mormon church care about what "convenient" arrangements it sets up for outings?
As an LDS Scoutmaster I have had dozens of conversations over the last few years with other LDS and non-LDS scout leaders about when the Church would pull the plug on it’s BSA relationship. I am hoping this is it. Trail Life is an outstanding replacement to the BSA for most Christian boys. They do not however accept LDS (Mormons) because of our belief in extra-Biblical scripture (the Book of Mormon) and our rejection of the Trinity. Rather than resent Trail Life for that I have great respect for them. They have set principles of what they want their membership to believe and they will not waiver. That is the fundamental problem with the BSA today. Homosexuality is but one cultural, religious, political issue that could be addressed in many ways. The fatal flaw of the BSA is that they spent the last decade constantly changing what are supposed to be moral principles based on polls, donations, and legal/media pressure. This demonstrates that they do not understand what a moral principle is. The joke amongst a lot of conservative (good) scout leaders I know is that the Scout Oath should now end in “To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally FLEXIBLE.” I have an Eagle Scout son, an almost Eagle Scout son and one more just starting. It is my hope that they can be a part of something that stands for timeless values and is unwavering.
That’s why I believe they’ll expand or modify their Duty to God program which incorporates some aspects of scouting...
Other churches/faiths probably will as well...sever all ties with BSA which is considered “implicit support” of homosexuality as we were told by the church we were chartered with when they severed ties with our unit almost 2 years ago over the youth policy...this change is even worse.
Well said azcap...I hope your youth are able to participate in a strong and wholesome program outside of the BSA.
The LDS can make it happen, just quit releasing TC members and SM’s so quickly! ;^)
There go the Gay Scouts!
Even though they aren't meeting until August, it has been on their minds. On the church website for Scouting they have a Duty to God scouting video. “Duty to God” is the heart of Scouting and is a foundational principle as old as the organization itself.. In it is the Baden Powell quote. Lord Baden Powell himself would choose the kingdom of God over what the scouting organization will become.
I have been guessing the church will drop scouts, which is sad. Pres. Monson got the silver buffalo award one of their highest honors. Now he will have to help preside over its demise as the lds (and other churches) get out. Unfortunately many lds work for the organization. You can major in it at BYU, like my Father in Law did back in the 1960’s. We have a guy in our ward who works for the Scouts. Time to update his resume as membership nose dives the organization will be left a shell of its; former self.
I’m an Eagle Scout and LDS scoutmaster here. My dad got his Eagle Scout back in the 1950’s when you didn’t have to do an eagle project. So I have many fond memories of it. Being involved today as a leader though, in my opinion, Scouts has gotten too beauracratic and paperwork heavy and the prices for shirts and badges are through the roof. Since I was younger the organization has become more what I would call "city scouts". My main goal now is to get the boys out camping. That's where the real learning takes place for the boys anyway. We are hiking and camping later this week. Then we will be boating and camping in a few more weeks. The church will switch to Duty to God and probably still include camping activities. The Young Women already have their own yearly week long campout. I’m guessing the young men will do the same with more emphasis on the camping.
Thank you for this comment.
The fatal flaw of the BSA is that they spent the last decade constantly changing what are supposed to be moral principles based on polls, donations, and legal/media pressure. This demonstrates that they do not understand what a moral principle is. The joke amongst a lot of conservative (good) scout leaders I know is that the Scout Oath should now end in “To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally FLEXIBLE.” I have an Eagle Scout son, an almost Eagle Scout son and one more just starting. It is my hope that they can be a part of something that stands for timeless values and is unwavering.
Well, good for you re: timeless values, unwavering values, principled living, and not being morally flexible with the times.
My question is: What about the historical Mormon flex with...
...polygamy (against in the Book of Jacob in the BoM; then pro; then against 1890; then pro when leaders married several hundred more 1890-1910; then against via a crackdown; then pro when it came to "eternity" as widowers married more than one wife in the temple...)???
...skin color for admission to the priesthood?
..."Adam is God" is what Brigham preached from the tabernacle pulpit for 20+ years...but then he apparently wasn't...?
(Sounds pretty wavering & doctrinally "flexible" to me)
Reading the article as a whole, sounds like the LDS is going to come up with its own Scouting program.
The LDS only have themselves to blame as they participated with their votes on the first step a couple of years ago. They are also complicit with their votes on hiring Gates who clearly stated where he was going to take the BSA. The roadmap was there right along and the LDS Scouting people could have put the brakes on it whenever they wanted. Now they’re griping when the bus has arrived at the edge of the cliff that was right there on the map. No sympathy here but I guess better late than never. They will probably go their own way, a la AWANA/Royal Rangers/etc.
The bureaucracy and costs of scouting are another huge reason I hope that my Church leaves the BSA. I own a screenprinting and embroidery company. I know to the penny what scout shirt or a merit badge patch costs and the markups are insane. The biggest cost for Cub Scout programs is often time awards. Money that could be spent on experiences, travel, gear or learning materials is spent on overpriced awards. Don’t get me started on Merit Badge pamphlets at $5 a pop -there is a time and place for printed books but PDF technology which has been around for 20 years could have given every boy, leader and counselor a copy of every book for no more than the cost of authoring it. One of the reasons that I think Trail Life has been so successful and had explosive growth is you don’t really have to reinvent the wheel. Everything that made Scouting great for a hundred years is easier to implement with today’s technology and resources as long as your time and money aren’t fixated on appeasing the Left, whose only real goal is to destroy everything you believe in piece by piece.
Which god?
Per Joseph Smith, he mentioned MANY of them:
Smith excerpt #1:
In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)
Smith excerpt #2:
In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through--Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)
(Why settle for a mere "appointed" MORMON god, small "g", when the Ultimate Father-God who had no beginning exists?)
Was not aware and am sorry to hear. Mormons I know & have known tend to live a more virtuous and “morally straight” life than most of us. Am thankful for the LDS neighbors in my community. Regret BSA has fallen prey to secular relativism, and that such as Trail Life USA cannot be more accepting of those whose differing beliefs nonetheless would make them upstanding members of their organization.
My father was career Army and a Scout Leader, my mother a Den Mother, and all three brothers Scouts & Explorers. My middle brother earned Eagle Scout (awarded when he was a Plebe at West Point) & later became a successful entrepreneur. The three of us attended service academies, served our country, & have had successful civilian careers. Scouting was a big part of our journey to honorable manhood.
This is a sad time for the country that we so love.
Was not aware. It’s the organization’s prerogative, but regretful it excludes those of differing beliefs who nonetheless would make “morally upright” members. Traditionalists of many faiths reject the moral relativism, secular humanism, & perversions of our “modern” culture, Protestants, Roman Catholics, Jews, Mormons among them.
They may change, I suspect the differing teachings/doctrines and the logistics typically involved in accommodating LDS at summer camps may have been involved in the original decision.
Not to hijack the thread, but the LDS and mainline Christian churches view each other with skepticism based on teachings/doctrine.
A friend’s letter to the Mormons tonight:
I’m a non-Mormon who has been volunteering for a local The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints-affiliated Boy Scouts of America organization. I was looking for some place to give input to the Church in their upcoming decision regarding the BSA decision on openly gay leaders (see
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-re-evaluating-scouting-program). I don’t see anyplace to allow such comments to the Church organization.
In any case, although I am not a member of your church, I’m disheartened by the BSA decision, which I see goes against your beliefs, the safety of the youth, and the future of the organization. I reluctantly urge the Church to cease its 100+ year association the BSA.
I don’t intend to continue my service to youth via the BSA.
Should the Church choose to cease BSA sponsorship and wish my services through some other organization, I’ll be open to that.
Thank you, and be well.
“I imagine the LDS will probably expand their Duty to God program that is currently their religious award and modify it to some extent to include more Scouting related activities in some fashion.”
The LDS church has a program already in use in other countries. It is called AP Scouts. The insignia patch they use is quite interesting.
Just HOW to the rulers of the Boy Scouts get into power?
WHO ‘elects’ or selects them?
OUCH!
OH???
Depends on where you look; I guess...
Trinity: found in the Book of MORMON ----------- rejected in the Doctrines and Covenants
Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. (Alma 11:28-29) ...and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44) ...doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Nephi 31:21) ...praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7) ...power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son--And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, (Mosiah 15:3-5) ...of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them. (Ether 2:8) According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest. (Section 121:32) And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God. And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them--Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths--then shall it be written in the Lamb's Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. (Section 132:18-20) Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods. (Section 132:37)
"Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name." (3 Nephi 9:15)
"And again the Lord called others, and said unto them likewise; and he gave unto them power to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; and there shall be no disputations among you. Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them--Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them. And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water. And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one." (3 Nephi 11:22-27, 36)
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