Posted on 08/02/2015 10:38:51 AM PDT by Kaslin
Okay. I mean, this shouldn’t be a shocker, but people who have no firearms training didn’t survive the firearms training simulator located at Prince George's County Police Department in Maryland. Another non-surprise is that police officers did well; though some might add that concealed carry holders spend more time at the range than police officers. Regardless, the Washington Post reported on how determining life and death situations–and when to use deadly force–is difficult; something that any gun owner, or person with common sense, would already know:
[A] new study from researchers at Mount St. Mary's University sheds some light on why people don't use guns in self-defense very often. As it turns out, knowing when and how to apply lethal force in a potentially life-or-death situation is really difficult.
The study was commissioned by the National Gun Victims Action Council, an advocacy group devoted to enacting "sensible gun laws" that "find common ground between legal gun owners and non-gun owners that minimizes gun violence in our culture." The study found that proper training and education are key to successfully using a firearm in self-defense: "carrying a gun in public does not provide self-defense unless the carrier is properly trained and maintains their skill level," the authors wrote in a statement.
They recruited 77 volunteers with varying levels of firearm experience and training, and had each of them participate in simulations of three different scenarios using the firearms training simulator at the Prince George's County Police Department in Maryland. The first scenario involved a carjacking, the second an armed robbery in a convenience store, and the third a case of suspected larceny.
They found that, perhaps unsurprisingly, people without firearms training performed poorly in the scenarios. They didn't take cover. They didn't attempt to issue commands to their assailants. Their trigger fingers were either too itchy -- they shot innocent bystanders or unarmed people, or not itchy enough -- they didn't shoot armed assailants until they were already being shot at.
First, the National Gun Victims Action Council (NGVAC) is a pro-gun control group, who seem to be driving home that “police know what to do, average Joe don’t” narrative when it comes to firearms and self-defense. That’s fine. It’s also axiomatic. If you’re not trained to do “x,” you’re probably going to suck at it–and with firearms; that’s especially the case. In fact, without proper safety, it’s downright irresponsible that could get yourself or other around you injured, even killed. As an avid shooter, my first step was to take a safety course from a NRA-certified instructor. It lasted a few hours, but it taught me basic safety, and what to look out for (squib loads, hang fire, etc.) and what to do if such malfunctions occur when I’m at the range.
Regarding self-defense, like the examples in the video, of course, people with zero experience in anything firearms-related aren’t going to fare well. Also, the Post noted that the sample size is also very small, so one shouldn’t cite this piece in future debates about gun control. So, yes, we can agree that folks with zero training will probably die. Yet, the premises of the NGVAC, such fighting the “epidemic of gun violence” and “why gun violence is a direct consequence of current gun laws,” are still painfully wrong. The country is safer, violent crime’s downward trend continues, and gun-related homicides are down 39 percent between 1993-2011, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
If firearms safety and training is what NGVAC is trying to promote, they should work with an organization that does this pretty successfully, and respects the Second Amendment as well. It’s called the National Rifle Association.
Last Note: Yet, there seem to be times when you know that using deadly force is the only way out of a dangerous situation. Even pastors of churches know this.
No kidding?
Thanks.
Assuming the gun has an external safety.
With Glock being the most ubiquitous pistol out there, your objection seems peripheral.
If they want to “meet in the middle”, then they should give up something big... how about once the public has the training, they can carry that firearm anywhere... public gatherings, govt buildings, schools, military bases..
Oh they aren’t willing to compromise that? Then it looks like they meant the typical leftist compromise of keep giving them a little bit till they have it all.
Those who haven’t had training on when and how to use a fire extinguisher did worse in a fire safety drill than firefighters. Ergo, we should keep fire extinguishers out of the hands of amateurs.
Even BETTER!
Let's ban FIRE!
I would love to read about your experiences.
draw it,,,
FIRE IT !
That’s a mighty dangerous simulator if it actually kills the people using it.
Yes. She looks like she has NEVER held a gun in her life!
"They" are making people like that. Every time they punish a little kid for pointing a finger and saying "pow", or punishing a kid for biting their sandwich in the shape of an "L" accusing them of wanting a gun. When I was a kid, every kid I knew had a cap gun and holster and we played cowboys and indians. Then we gravitated to BB guns along with the requisite warnings and training from adults. My wife was one of those with no experience with guns; (lots of women didn't play like the boys did). Until I took her to a range. Didn't take her long practicing with a dozen different guns, to have more than zero experience. This society is raising boys to be pansies like women who never played with toy guns.
You laugh, but that has been the case at a couple different businesses I worked at. Employees would be fired if they ever used a fire extinguisher for any reason. We were also not allowed to pull a fire alarm, but had to find the person assigned to the floor to pull it for us. I’m surprised no one ever died in those places.
Coming out of high school, a goal was to write “Uncle Sam’s Cabin” in the style of DosPassos’ MidCentury. ‘61 to ‘80 I collected mountains of data. Then I destroyed it and don’t remember half of it.
I was in Chicago’s inner city in everything that was anti-Democrat machine politics. So I built coalitions of the far left and far-right. I was city-wide co-chair of many Alinksky organization red-lining and housing related committees.
Sometimes it was my overt political activity that got me in trouble. Sometimes it was just playing peace-maker between street gangs or angry anybodies that brought on excitement.
I go to the range before they open to the public and shoot on the opposite side of the range from security guards qualifying. I can tell you they need all the pointers they can get. They only shoot once a year and it shows.
Practice, practice practice.
It’s the only way to be proficient at anything.
Have you ever tried the "SureStrike" system?
It won't help with recoil management, but WOW! My groups have shrunk by 2/3s!
This article makes it seem as though no military veterans exist, nor could they contacted for any input of information.
As i read it, it is the “experienced, paid for” police, versus John and Jane Q. ‘know nothing’ Public.
There are a lot of folks that cannot afford to go to any sort of “training’, which is subjective, other than the class held when folks get their CHL. Not everybody can go to a two or three day ‘training’ at some named gun range, away from home.
Texas Gator wrote, and i quote:
“If you have a gun, you should have training ...”
Well, jhfc, Gator, why don’t you just EXPOUND on what ‘training’ YOU think somebody ‘should’ have?!?!
What?
Concealed Carry Class?
How, for a know-nothing, to shoot a firearm class?
A 3-day seminar, as taught at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, et al?
Do you suggest that fellow on YouTube, that gives all the seminars on how to obtain an ‘un-named state’ CHL?
Do you suggest that folks get a DVD of YOUR methods of training, that they can watch, take notes, and then, when they can, go to a gun range and attempt to incorporate them into their knowledge base?
Which would you teach a non-shooter, how to use a rimfire rifle for basic target shooting; a medium caliber revolver - since it might be the one in the nightstand for years; a handgun in a caliber that the person can operate without too much difficulty by age; or would you pull out that .44 Magnum you keep for such occasions, like the folks that carry the biggest bible they can?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRXNNqNfQBs
LOL – “Why did little Tiffany deserve to die?”
But a simulator is also a video game, with a learning curve that may mimic real life to a greater or lesser degree. My kids were great at driving games, much better than me, but scared the crap out of me for a few days when I first taught them to drive in a real car.
I remember taking Driver’s Ed in HS, back in the late ‘70’s (and yes it was an elective course and all you needed to pay for yourself was the cost of getting your learner’s permit and being able to come to school on weekends for “live” on the road training with an instructor for an additional small fee, IIRC - $10 -$15).
We had to log in so many hours of classroom time, watch those scary crash scene and anti-speeding and anti-drunk driving movies and also pass a test on a “driving simulator” before we were allowed to go out on the road in an actual car with an instructor. But I found that sitting at the simulator was nothing at all like driving a real car in real life situations.
The driving simulator, this being the 1970’s, was pretty primitive. It could detect if you were over or under steering, going too fast or too slow or breaking not enough or too hard but that was about it and it was sort of synced to a screen that showed a road course you were supposed to follow, but it was not very interactive as me and some of the guys in our class learned by purposely trying to crash or drag race each other. LOL! I did “OK” on the driving simulator but the classroom instructor just barely passed me. And that’s a whole other story.
I and two other gals were paired up for on the road instruction and much to my surprise on our very first time behind the wheel of a real car, and the road instructor for some reason choose me to go first, and after driving around the school parking lot for only about 15 minutes, he had me go out on the road and then onto a busy highway. And I did great on the road. The only thing I did “wrong” was going just a bit too fast on the highway, but then I pointed out to the instructor that I was only keeping up with the speed and flow of traffic and he said, “yes, that’s what you should do but then “technically”, even if you go even one mile over the posted speed limit, you are technically going too fast for purposes of passing this course – “wink - wink.””
I am really bad at those driving/racing video games but then again I have a nearly perfect driving record over the last 35+ years – only one speeding ticket in nearly 40 years of driving and no accidents that were my fault and the only two that I was in; one was a man who rear ended me at a red light and just two years ago, a very elderly woman who ran a stop sign and broad sided me. I am a pretty defensive driver, I am always aware of and monitoring the cars in front of me, behind me and along side of me and as my father told me when I was learning to drive: “assume that every driver on the road with you is not paying attention and is totally oblivious to the road conditions and you, or is a blathering idiot or is a drunk or any combination of the former, and more often than not, you will be right”. And that advice and defensive driving techniques has kept me from getting into more than a few accidents, accidents that I avoided by anticipating the stupid actions of other drivers around me.
I had a then 8 year old nephew who a few years ago really kicked my butt on several of those popular driving/racing video games – on X-Box and Wii, but I wasn’t about to give him the keys to my car. He was also very good at first person shooting games of all types but I wasn’t about to hand over my handgun to him either.
And a simulator is only as good as the simulator. Shooting a simulated gun in a simulated situation (i.e. playing a video game) is not necessarily a good indicator of actual skill and of reaction and judgment in a RL situation.
I remember when video games like Rock Band and Guitar Hero were all the rage. South Park even did a funny episode on it. A lot of folks who played these games and racked up points and advanced levels, thought that they were actually “musicians” because of their success in playing these games.
But skill in playing a simulation “game” is not necessarily the same nor equates to that skill in RL
That's what this article is pushing, and, not surprisingly, some freepers want to join right in.
Dry firing at the leftist talking heads on TV is wonderful at reducing hesitation time.
“Assuming the gun has an external safety.”
I really hate it when people excerpt to mislead ...
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