"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." Plato
Posted on 08/08/2015 6:13:14 AM PDT by Jeff Head
2) The people who absolutely benefited most from the main debate were Cruz and Carson. And well they should have. Theirs were the most principled and constitutionally oriented (IMHO) comments and disposition on that stage.
And so you mean to suggest that because Cruz and Carson gave the "most principled and constitutionally oriented (IMHO) comments and disposition on that stage" really cuts any ice with the majority of American voters nowadays?
Do you believe that the "mainstream voter" nowadays even cares about such considerations?
Just asking. I would reply: No. The mainstream American voter does not at all care about such "abstract" considerations. The average American voter is worried about how to "make ends meets" in the family budget — at a time when the full power of the Obama presidency has been targeted against the freedom and self-sufficiency of American families.
Beyond that, the average American voter — assuming he is sane — is concerned about national security, which without question has been going down the tubes — and deliberately so — under the Obama administration.
Obama is not incompetent. Rather, he is obtaining exactly what he wanted to obtain, upon his accession to presidential office. On that basis, I would say he is omnicompetent. (Valerie Jarrett assures him that this is true, every day, I feel sure.)
Whether the problem is domestic or international, Obama always picks the policy that will most undermine American interests. If you disagree with me on this point, just check his record for yourself. If you can get out of "sleepwalking mode" in the first place.
People need to get real. Obama's left-progressive oh-so-successful rhetoric is poisonous to the survival of the American people, and in particular of American families.
You make some good points, betty boop. I say that with regret.
The idea that Donald Trump would be corrupted by power...is a safer bet than buying stock in Iran.
Arnold Schwarzenegger sold himself on being too rich to be bought and paid for by anybody.
He even had a long history of being a Republican and even speaking at the convention, with such speeches as “You might be a Republican if...”
Then he got elected and governed as a liberal.
> “What worries me, dear marron, about Cruz’s candidacy is that I don’t see his appeal among/to woman voters as very high at this time.”
Dear Betty,
Women (and I’ve heard plenty) who seek a candidate of TRUST AND INTEGRITY will vote for Ted Cruz in a heartbeat. Ted wins hands down in the trust and integrity department.
Women (and again I’ve heard plenty) who seek a candidate of STRENGTH AND POWER are getting behind Donald Trump in droves.
It will be a very difficult choice to choose between these two fine candidates. It may even be heartbreaking
On the plus side, it is a blessing to have two such great candidates who are fighting so much for the same thing.
That’s why I am praying fervently that they unite to form an unbeatable Trump/Cruz ticket.
Of course Obama is competent...deathly so. He is accomplishing precisely what he intended.
As to Cruz and Carson’s advancement. I expect the poll had parameters regarding who it asked to make it relevant.
perhaps asking GOP voters who had watched the debate...or simply GOP individuals who planned to vote.
I do not know.
I do know that both Cruz and Carson advanced significantly, more so than any other, in the poll that was taken after the 1st debate.
Anecdotal evidence would indicate that it had something to do with their performance in the debate.
I do not think it is a coincident...and I believe that GOP voters, who are interested in precisely turning around Obama’s activities these last years, would respond positively to their performance at the debate.
Having watched it, their answers, and their demeanor were the most presidential and the most apt to turn around Obama’s activities, and to do so from a constitutional and principled foundation.
That is all.
Cruz Campaign Experiences Fundraising Surge Following DebateThese are all very good and hopeful signs.
HOUSTON, Texas — In the 100 hours since the first debate, the Ted Cruz campaign has seen an extraordinary outpouring of financial support. In those few days the campaign:
•Raised $1,092,157
•Received over 10,000 contributions
•Online contributions averaged $54.77
•Our webpage had 295,911 page views
•Our posts on Facebook generated 20,457,661 impressions
•Our tweets generated 12,332,304 impressions
All of this coincides with NBC releasing a poll this weekend showing a national outpouring of support with Cruz surging to second place overall with 13 percent nationwide.
As the Washington Post reported, “The most Googled candidate in the debate at any point was Ted Cruz — with 67 percent more searches at his peak than the next most-searched candidate’s peak.”
https://www.tedcruz.org/news/cruz-campaign-experiences-fundraising-surge-following-debate/
Will it hold?
I simply intend to work my heart out, and hit my knees and pray that he can sustain this momentum.
II Chron 7:14
Cruz is "my guy." One way he can help himself with the "women's vote" is to, as much as possible during public appearances, have his beautiful wife and two lovely little girls on-stage with him. Presenting himself as a doting husband and father would humanize him, and soften his hard-edged, hard-charging persona in ways that appeal to women.
I'm aware of how difficult presidential campaigns can be on family members; so there is a limit to how much they can get involved. Still, to see him with his beautiful family from time to time could be a great help to him.
Just some thoughts....
Cruz is "my guy." One way he can help himself with the "women's vote" is to, as much as possible during public appearances, have his beautiful wife and two lovely little girls on-stage with him. Presenting himself as a doting husband and father would humanize him, and soften his hard-edged, hard-charging persona in ways that appeal to women.
I'm aware of how difficult presidential campaigns can be on family members; so there is a limit to how much they can get involved. Still, to see him with his beautiful family from time to time could be a great help to him.
Just some thoughts....
The problem I have with Mr. Trump is that I have no clue what his principles are, or what he fundamentally believes in. Other than The Donald.
I really don't have a clue as to how long he can last. But I could be surprised about that.
However, I love Ted Cruz! He's "my guy."
Cruz is a solid ‘sure thing’ in my book. Donald Trump is more unknown but he’s leaving a trail that shows he’s genuine.
Both men are superstars in their walks of life and importantly they are self-correcting.
What I saw first about Trump is his risking his personal fortune and reputation by entering an ugly and unjust political arena. He gave up $213 million dollars to himself in declining to renew ‘The Apprentice’ for which is the star.
I know that money is not everything but if I had to face a situation where my family, my home, my business, my honor were all pledged to make a difference in the lives of people, I don’t think anyone could truly doubt my sincerity to the cause. That is precisely what the Founders all faced.
The next item I checked out was Trump’s support of veterans. In the 1980’s he personally launched a commission and funded the New York City Vietnam Veterans Memorial Plaza. No other politician or business person did such a thing there. Reading about his background I came to think he was following his father’s love of country and value of patriotism.
No doubt in my mind that Trump loves our veterans. Just this morning he said this on Fox and Friends with Steve Doocy “First of all that’s a great compliment coming from him because I’ve been watching him and he’s terrific” in reference to Rob O’Neil’s praise of Trump. O’Neil is the one that killed Osama Bin Laden as part of the Special Forces mission. That tells me Trump is patriotic and will seek to bring the best talent to the forefront in our military while taking care of our veterans.
Another item that is easily confirmed is his tenacity. He has tenaciously driven his businesses to succeed and to close the few that were unrecoverable. A person with his fortune could have quit a long time ago yet he is still driven by a vision of making things better. He’s simply a born fighter as is our Ted Cruz. There is a legitimate question of whether he will go the distance, will he weather the ups and downs in popularity? I think he can because it’s like any business, if customers lose interest, then it’s time to change the offering but always make sure to deliver on the promises otherwise a business simply can’t survive.
Now a clincher could be in this short video which reveals the real Trump and plausibly explains why the political Uniparty establishment fears him so much:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRbtf2UFcmc
I’ve been asked to post this video in a separate thread and I will later.
The bottomline is that we have two great choices, Cruz and Trump. It is no secret now that Trump admires Cruz and vice versa. Ted has enthusiastically praised Trump for taking on the Washington Cartel, and Trump just this morning tweeted a compliment to Ted on his debate performance.
I'm aware of how difficult presidential campaigns can be on family members; so there is a limit to how much they can get involved. Still, to see him with his beautiful family from time to time could be a great help to him.
Just some thoughts....
*****************************
Absolutely, I agree. All of the pictures that I've seen of his family are so appealing that having them in the spotlight can only be an advantage for him. Most people want a candidate to have a family and want to know something about them, because it helps them to feel that they know more about the candidate.
It was very informative and persuasive.
I have no idea right now where all the dust will settle in this nominating process.
But WRT The Donald, I promise you I will keep an open mind.
I’m not sure Wayne Allyn Root is the best voice for that video but he did articulate what Donald Trump is capable of doing to the corrupt in Washington. Ted Cruz is also capable of the same.
Here’s the video of Rob O’Neill praising Donald Trump (at time 6:35):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsOROGDG3YM
But Donald’s reaction was telling: As soon as Doocy announced that “someone who is your fan is Rob O’Neill”, Trump immediately said “Wow!” before Doocy finished his sentence. That little expression and its timing told me several things, he knew who Rob O’Neill was, he reads and keeps up to speed on our veterans, and he admires and respects our brave warriors.
As I’ve posted before, Trump’s lifestyle is not my cup of tea but maybe we don’t need tea and crackers right now. We need more like straight up Whisky.
Ted has the wholesome picture with his family, his wife and two daughters. His father is awesome! What an incredible picture for America!
Donald’s wife as 1st Lady? She’s quite the fashion model. Maybe she’ll bring a lot of class to the White House but she sure looks expensive if you know what I mean. We’ll have to see more of her. Somehow I don’t think Donald Trump would marry a bimbo so I expect to be surprised to find his wife is classy and elegant.
Family members tell a lot about the candidate so they’re fair game to put under the microscope.
Ted is 44 years old. Donald is 69. Ted in the White House as VP will put him in the White House as #46 as long as both he and Donald can get Americans and the world feeling good about America again. If Donald serves 2 terms, Ted will only be 53 years old in 2024.
So far everything is going just the way I pray especially after seeing Donald’s tweet to Ted this morning. If DT drops out for whatever reason I will be voting for Ted Cruz and in fact I continue to donate to Ted Cruz. It’s funny, on one day my heart says vote for Ted but my mind says vote for Donald. The next day it reverses! That’s why I get excited when I see them supporting each other, then I’m not so confused!
Wow. What a great essay/post, Hostage! I certainly think it might be time for some "straight-up whiskey" right about now! Jeepers, we don't even get "tea and crackers" anymore; it's more like pabulum ... something to be fed to ignorant, mewling babies.
I really, really like the characterization of the source of the misery being visited upon the American people as "the Washington Cartel." I've been thinking about it as "Washington, Inc." But the word "cartel" is even better here, more resonant....
In my last to you, I complimented Wayne Allyn Root (not someone I'm familiar with or know much about) for the "persuasiveness" of his presentation. And that set me off on a meditation on "persuasion."
Cut to the chase, I'm a life-long student of classical philosophy, in particular of Plato. For Plato, persuasion — peitho — was always an appeal to reason. He has the most charming myth about the creation of the Cosmos as the result, not of divine WILL, but of divine PERSUASION.
Evidently, for Plato, divine creation is an on-going, eternal process. It consists of the Demiurge — who is not god, but clearly some kind of agent of the "unknown" god — "persuading" the unformed and formless chora — I find it helpful to think of what we now call the quantum world for an analogy — to assume form and thus enter into the created world order.
But the point is the Demiurge's "persuasion" always involves appeals to reason. And that is why we humans can know that the world is "reasonable," intelligible to the human mind.
This might all sound really off-the-wall, a complete digression; but I want to make the following point:
The "persuasion" used by Left Progressives is never an appeal to reason. Rather, it is an appeal to emotions. So, they can breast-beat, scream and yell and complain and say how everybody is getting screwed by the status quo that they will totally invert if elected, thus to achieve "social justice"; and then rely on smoke and mirrors for all the rest.
From what I see right now, Donald Trump's appeal is extraordinarily emotional, visceral. He says the things that people want to say themselves, but don't — out of perceived impotence or fear or whatever reason. He encourages the "silent majority" to find its voice. And increasingly, it has. And they are screaming bloody murder! Kudos to The Donald for this!!!
But at some point, Mr. Trump's brand of persuasion must become an appeal to reason to be successful.
And here's a happy thought: Maybe Mr. Trump could benefit from the helps of Sen. Cruz, who can, without doubt, translate The Donald to the rest of us in totally reasonable terms. Especially in light of public policy positions which both seemingly share. On The Donald's part, maybe instinctively. On Cruz's part, as a matter of principle.
We can hope. And pray, dear Hostage!
Thank you oh so very much for your outstanding essay/post!
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." Plato
Wow.
Cruz and Trump are two quite different individuals but they have by different roads arrived at the same place at the same moment in time.
Trump is not an intellectual, he is a doer. He is a pragmatist, his philosophical principles tend to gut-felt and not intellectual. But he is tenacious, and he is a nationalist.
Cruz is very clear philosophically. He is also fearless which makes him very similar in that respect to Trump.
I see the two men as very much in harmony with one another. I know Trump has been all over the map in previous years, but I have the sense that he has been growing toward this moment. Five years ago he wasn't where he is now.
I don't entirely trust his pragmatic side to be philosophically clear, he is too much a deal-maker for me to be entirely trusting. He is not the guy who reads Hayek, as others have noted. But he is unafraid of over-turning applecarts. Cruz likewise is unafraid, but his grasp of principle is much more clear. They would make a very good team, I believe. He is too arrogant to take advice from just anyone but I believe he listens to people he respects and Cruz, I believe, is high on that list. I don't know if Trump could or would work for Cruz, but who knows, we may see them working together ultimately.
I have to laugh, though. Eight years of serving under a President Trump would no doubt turn Cruz's hair white. Eight years of trying to supervise a Vice President Trump would probably do the same thing. But it would be a very interesting eight years.
trisham says it well in post #76 quoting I presume Plato.
Part of being caught up in politics is to seek comfort in knowing that someone is in charge to keep order and stability using a ‘reasonable’ approach.
Yes, indeed Donald Trump carries a loyal following based on emotional reaction rather than reason but he is also (I have found) quite reasonable and in fact when we think about it how could he not be reasonable and yet achieved the degree of success in the way that he has done it?
Trump did not amass wealth by being the recipient of crazy IPOs on Wall St. or by crazy billion dollar buyouts e.g. Instagram and others. In other words it was not rigged or random luck that brought him success. He wrote “The Art Of The Deal” and his track record speaks volumes for building effective organizations of people that get things done.
Trump has remarked that the people he will use in trade deals are awful people personally, the kind you would never invite for dinner, the kind that make people sick to their stomachs BUT they get the job done. Contrast that picture with Caroline Kennedy as Ambassador to Japan. I think we need Trumpism in our lives not because of emotion but because of reality and practicality.
But the charisma of Trump (whether you and I personally subscribe to it or not) does grab hold of something that Ted Cruz cannot quite get at, the low information voter and indeed they are caught up in emotion. But Trump appeals to patriots, conservatives, intellectuals and business people. In short Trump and Cruz appeal to the same demographic groups with the exception that Trump reaches one more which is the LIV. That tells me Trump can win with Cruz.
The general registered percentages of the electorate are as thus:
42% Independents (yes, it’s true, up from 24% in 2012, an enormous sea change in politics)
31% democrats (down from 35% in 2012)
27% Republican (down from 33% in 2012)
And 2/3’s of the independents report themselves as conservative with others leaning conservative.
Now the numbers of democrats and republicans have not shrunk so much as there has been a groundswell of independents coming into the process for the first time and who chose to register neither as republican nor democrat ending up in the ranks of independents.
The phenomenon is perfectly illustrated in this example of a woman voter who registered to vote for the 1st time as an independent; hear her question Ted Cruz at a town hall in NH:
Time 1:12:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sznh5AjageI
In the example above of the young woman talking to Ted Cruz, she seems she could easily be a ‘reasonable’ person voting with her mind and not so much with her heart BUT she evokes emotions that we all share in politics and those are fear, cynicism and mistrust. These emotions are natural to us all. I know from so many reports that Ted Cruz is able to establish trust, to literally take people who are sitting on the fence and persuade them to give him their trust, and they do so wholeheartedly from what I am told. And there are so many videos of Ted with the crowds on the internet that I think it’s safe to say that Ted captures the hearts and minds of a great many voters.
But here’s the ‘but’: the media are not independent and they will not promote Ted Cruz. They are soldiers who carry out orders from the ruling Oligarchs and the Oligarchs all know each other; the world is small at the top. I will bet heavily that Rupert Murdock, the Socialist from Australia, is sweating bullets thinking about the repercussions of his dust-up with Donald Trump. Because Trump is more than a persona, he’s a figurehead of an organization that includes really mean bad*ss people (let Plato comment on that aspect).
The media will not promote Ted Cruz, they will marginalize him and if he ever gets within striking distance of the ruling class, the media will engage in some heavy psych-ops to confuse his supporters. Examples of this have already happened pre-Trump. This means Ted is vulnerable to losing and that is a very big concern for me because regardless of Ted’s populist appeal, the race will at best be razor thin and will require Divine Intervention in the form of a confluence of events, a perfect storm to see that he gets elected as President. The people he is going up against do not fight fair and will break any law to get what they want.
I remind people that the great Ronald Reagan was not elected to his 1st term based on his honorable reputation, his charisma, his integrity or his intellect (which was considerable). He was elected because of a confluence of events and his hawkish attributes. Many thought RR would truly start WWIII with the USSR, it was in all the newspapers and on all broadcast media. The media had caricatured RR as a crazy trigger happy cowboy who would unleash endless war.
Then the Iranian Hostage Crisis happened.
And RR was elected handily.
What events could possibly happen to put Ted in the White House that would overcome the media’s caricature of him? We don’t know.
But with Trump, the uncertainty is less because he and his people know the media and know how to handle the media.
The media are the enemy as foot soldiers for the Oligarchs and the Trump people know who they are. And those Oligarchs control the markets to a great extent, ergo the economy, the way of life. I believe there will be a crash if a republican gets elected and it will take someone with incredible business savvy and connections to pull the USA out of a tailspin. I can imagine that this could be why Donald Trump appears now.
The USA is insolvent, effectively going bankrupt (bankruptcy is not an option as the USA is sovereign). The root cause of this insolvency is not so much the entitlements (as are popular to believe) as it is the incompetence of leadership. I’ll give you an example: I participated with a trade group negotiating a deal with KOGAS (Korean Gas Corporation) on behalf of the Clean Energy Company (a T. Boone Pickens Natural Gas Company). The South Koreans were looking to purchase any natural gas they could their hands on (in the form of LNG of course). A trade friend of mine in Amsterdam was also in daily contact with me to forge an LNG deal with the Euro Zone who were looking desperately at getting a new supplier of NG that was not Russian.
The USA has the world’s greatest surplus of NG. The amount of NG produced is more than 10 times the amount that Americans could every use. The excess is such a problem that most all of it has to be burned off (wasted). The South Koreans were so much in need of American NG that they offered to make all the investment in land, pipe, liquefaction plants in Long Beach and also Houston. The price of NG in the USA is about a third of the average anywhere else. The prospect of supplying Asia and Europe with LNG from the USA would employ MILLIONS (no exaggeration) into secure high paying jobs for decades and the emerging industry would create other offshoot industries so that the total employment would be in the tens of millions.
But it was all held up because Obama’s people would not pledge to grant the necessary export licences so that contracts could be finalized. Obama and his ring are anti-carbon even though NG is a clean and natural source of energy.
Ted Cruz understands this one example above and he knows how important it is. His constituents in the Oil & Gas Industry pressured him to push for the TPA so that when he would be President or another republican, the TPA would be there to forge a trade deal.
But here’s the ‘but’: to get the trade deals done right, Ted would need to fire the entire existing group of trade reps because they are all appointees in the Obama camp. The corporate knowledge they hold would be lost and would need to be replaced. Now Ted’s heavy backers are good people and know their business but they don’t have access to the very best and nastiest traders that Donald Trump has access to. If Ted were to ask one of his influential Texan constituents to call up Carl Icahn, Carl would likely balk. If Donald Trump calls Carl, Carl will say “I’m on it”. Do you see the difference?
And this is just one example, a trade example.
The emotionalism and the charisma of the Donald Trump campaign garners the LIV which is important. Trump’s media people are there to stare down the other Oligarchs. But the Trump group business savvy is the meat.
Sorry to drag on so long but it’s important that fellow Cruz supporters discuss this subject because it will not go away anytime soon.
TRUMP is methyl alcohol.. Cruz is ethyl alcohol..
One will BLIND YOU.. the other will make you feel groovey..
Video - https://www.dropbox.com/s/xl8rryik2smv4uc/Cruz1.mp4?dl=0
I don't instantly recognize this quote, in that I cannot locate it in the the Platonic dialogues I've read so far.
But I do know that Plato makes it very clear in his works that a man who cannot or will not govern himself will end up being governed by another man (or cabal of men).
Close enough for scratch!!!
Thank you so very much for writing, trisham!
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