Posted on 08/12/2015 7:28:44 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[BIG SNIP top of Morning Jolt]
"....Do Republicans Even Care What Conservatism Is Anymore?
In mid-August 2011, Rick Perry was the frontrunner for the GOP nomination. He led every national poll from mid-August to late September. Of course, the following six months turned out to be one of the most tumultuous periods of any presidential primary in recent memory: Herman Cain led some polls -- he reached 27 percent in one survey -- followed by Newt Gingrich, and before the primaries were done, Rick Santorum was the frontrunner for several consecutive polls. At one point, Michele Bachmann was in second place nationally. In February, one poll had Ron Paul in second place with 21 percent of the vote. Of course, Mitt Romney never trailed that badly, and ended up winning the nomination.
Perhaps Donald Trump will be remembered as another Cain or Gingrich. But one striking contrast is that Cain and Gingrich were indisputably conservative. Sure, Gingrich had some out-there ideas and Cain could be pretty open about his inexperience in foreign affairs, but their views, statements, and actions during their long public careers clearly put them on the right side of the political spectrum.
This doesn’t apply to Donald Trump. The criteria of the Trump fans strike the rest of us as bewildering, because there’s no past or present deviation from conservative philosophy that seems serious enough to get them to say, “Whoa, whoa, whoa . . . maybe I’ve got the wrong guy here.”
Trump is allegedly popular because he’s the only one talking about illegal immigration -- he isn’t -- but in the past days he said he supports what sounds like a path to citizenship for certain illegal immigrants, based on “merit.”
Ann Coulter contends Trump will continue to surge as long as he keeps talking about immigration, stating, “The voters keep saying, ‘We don’t want any more immigration.” Does she still feel that way when Trump says, “I would get people out and I would have an expedited way of getting them back into the country so that they can be legal”?
Glenn Reynolds attributes Trump’s rise to anger over two particular issues . . .
>>>Trump’s rise is, like that of his Democratic counterpart Bernie Sanders, a sign that a large number of voters don’t feel represented by more mainstream politicians. On many issues, ranging from immigration reform, which many critics view as tantamount to open borders, to bailouts for bankers, the Republican and Democratic establishments agree, while a large number (quite possibly a majority) of Americans across the political spectrum feel otherwise . . .<<<
Except Trump’s immigration position of sending the illegals home and then letting “the good ones” enter legally isn’t all that different from an open border, and Trump is not a critic of the Troubled Asset Relief Program:
>>>You had to do something to sure up [sic] the banks, because the psychology of the banks and you would have had a run on every banks, the strongest and the weakest. So, you have to do something. And I hated the ultraconservative view on that. And ultraconservative is nothing should ever happen. If they go out of business, everybody said, that’s fine.<<<
You did have to do something to sure up the banks. They probably should have done something for Lehman Brothers, because Lehman was a disaster that caused lots of other disasters. Lehman was a real disaster, but they did have to do something to sure up the banks.
Trump also supported the bailout of the auto industry.
On just about every major issue, Trump has previously loudly endorsed the progressive ideal: In 1999, he endorsed a 14.25 percent one-time “net worth tax“ on individuals and trusts worth $10 million or more. He’s called for “universal healthcare” and described himself as “very liberal on health care.” He supported the assault-weapons ban. He once said he was “very pro-choice.” He just said he’s willing to support funding for Planned Parenthood’s non-abortion activities. He’s a big fan of eminent domain, and said he agreed with the Kelo vs. New London decision “100 percent.”
Lots of conservative writers have been laying out Trump’s past statements and positions for several weeks now, with little or no impact on his lead in the polls. Either lots of Republican voters don’t encounter these arguments, or they read them and don’t think Trump’s past positions matter much.
What’s particularly baffling about Trump fans is that, right after dismissing their man’s past liberal positions, they will then turn around and dismiss other candidates because they’re allegedly not conservative enough.
The skepticism of Jeb Bush is completely understandable, whether it’s his allegedly “rigorous path to earned legal status,” his stance on Common Core (and the suspicion he’s not being honest about what the program does) or the nagging fear he won’t be relentless enough if matched against his metaphorical sister-in-law Hillary Clinton. But between his dramatic expansion of school choice, nearly $20 million in state tax cuts, cutting 14,000 state jobs, abolishment of affirmative action in university admissions and state contracting by executive order, and eliminating all state funding of Planned Parenthood, Jeb Bush did more for the cause of conservatism in his eight years as governor than Donald Trump ever did.
Marco Rubio will be similarly dismissed from consideration for his role in the Gang of Eight deal, although how different is that bill’s path to citizenship from Trump’s “expedited way to get them back in the country legally”?
Rick Perry is flat-lining in some of the early primary states. Is this over his 2011 “have a heart” comment? Doesn’t his response to the 2014 border crisis count for anything?
Are we really to believe that Donald Trump is the most consistently conservative, most qualified, most electable, overall best choice in a field that includes Ted Cruz, Scott Walker, and Bobby Jindal? That he deserves the support of Republicans more than Carly Fiorina? Even if you disagree with some of their particular stances, don’t Rand Paul, Rick Santorum, or Mike Huckabee deserve more credit for what they’ve actually done for the conservative cause? Doesn’t Ben Carson or John Kasich bring more to the table?
The 20-some percent of self-identified Republicans currently preferring Trump are insisting to the rest of us that records don’t matter, attitude does. This strikes me as spectacularly wrong-headed.
Do these voters know what conservatism is? Do they care?
These guys keep trying to damage Trump by pointing out he has been on the liberal side of issues in the past, so we shouldn’t trust him. But how is Trump any different than sending a Republican House, and Senate to Washington, and watching them pass nothing but Democrat legislation? Personally I believe Trump would be a train wreck as a president, but at least he wouldn’t be as patronizing as the train wreck the beltway wants us to support.
Agreed. The guy has backtracked on about every thing he said previously to run.
There’s been a whole boatload of Republicans who begged for our vote claiming they were conservatives. Last year’s Congressional races come to mind.
When we gave them the vote and they won, how did their “conservatism” work?
1. Wouldn’t vote to end Obamacare, like they said they would.
2. Wouldn’t stop Amnesty, like they said they would. Lucky for us, the Courts did (for now).
3. APPROVED Obama’s secret trade deal.
4. GAVE UP their Constitutional duties in the Senate to approve treaties. Now they can only vote them down—IF they have 60 votes for cloture.
5. Pulled the rug out from many true conservatives for opposing the above—took their seats from their committees to show them and us they have the whip hand—”Thank you for last year’s vote, suckers!”
Maybe people are looking at Trump and saying, well, he’s never been a conservative, but now says he is. AND the liars that just stabbed us in the back hate him, so...
How can voting for Trump be worse than the Betrayal of 2014?
I doubt it. The moment he came under fire, Cain folded like the French army at the Battle of Sedan. Trump, on the other hand, is a brawler who almost seems to relish a fight. And I doubt that Trump would do something foolish like take a long cruise to the Greek islands when he ought to be out campaigning, as Gingrich did.
At this point most people care about getting the economy back and keeping the illegals out. They want to make America great again not make it Mexico again.
That might carry weight but for the fact that there are people who have stepped up and are actively running for the Republican presidential nomination who have records of conservative accomplishment, who want to shrink the federal government (and have spoken to the things Trump is claiming as his own). You'd cut them off at the knees to send a message to Congress?
My opinion is that only a delusional person believes the two are the same. The Conservative “party” is a reaction to the liberal leanings of both the Democratic and Republican Party. Democratic and Republican parties are dying slow, painful deaths. I predict an eventual and total parting of the way within each party. The evolution of politics will result in only the purest form of Liberalism and the purest form of Conservatism. You can see a similar model in what has happened in Christianity when examining the past 3 or 4 decades.
Are we absolutely certain that Elizabeth Warren isn’t going to crawl out and jump in at some point?
I don't know if you think Trump is the person to do this but if you do, I respectfully suggest that by handing a showman, one who improvises on the fly, one who can't maintain his policy positions from morning 'till night, your support and vote, you will have someone who will do nothing but embolden our enemies, create bedlam in the nation, and in the end, tell us we weren't worthy of him and leave us with nothing left to build on.
Apparently Republicans want a candidate who admits to paying off politicians for favors. Who loves Kelo and taking peoples property. They want a candidate who loves bailouts. They want a candidate who voted for Hillary for Senate and said Obama saved the economy. They want a candidate married to a porn star as a role model for little girls everywhere. They want a candidate who lashes out like a 12-year petulant child against any perceived slight.
I think this article misses an important point.
Some conservatives believe if the issue of illegal immigration isn’t dealt with properly with this election that conservatives are done forever here.
Because the legalized illegals will be enough to throw every election against them going forward.
I certainly cannot argue with your logic. But I think at this point in the process, we still have several other good options, as pointed out in the article, who are dedicated conservatives.
The Republican Party brought this reckoning on itself because it is not offering a viable alternative to the progressive left. When you offer no choice you get lack of participation and eventually open hostility for the endless lies the GOP repeats ad-nauseam each election cycle, people are not going to vote to cut their own throats, although listening to some of the Freeper GOP groupies often makes one wonder.
The Republicans think they can out liberal an out of the closet liberal on the cheap, it ain’t gonna happen, they are deluded.
Did they ever, outside of Reagan?
Do our Representatives actually represent us?
Do the bulk of our leaders actually understand they work for us?
Do the bulk of them understand and apply the USC?
Do ALL of our leaders they believe in the 3 branches of Government and Check and Balances?
SOmeone is talking about making America great,again. Do they ACTUALLY blieve America can be great? Do they ACTUALLY love America or our they mostly self serving politicians who would sell us out the highest bidder?
Social conservatism is taking a back seat this cycle due to the dire situation the country is in.
“Do Republicans Even Care What Conservatism Is Anymore?”
The rank and file does, but no, the Party itself does not. The Party cares only about getting themselves re-elected and keeping the good time perks rolling for them personally.
The hostility between the GOPe and the GOP peasants is now open warfare that will be reaching a crescendo this election. Whether Trump or ¡Yeb! is at the helm, the destruction of the GOPe in 2016 will be a sight to behold!
As a woman, some of the things trump has said offends me.
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