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To: Bob434
The NASA site does not dispute what I said which is that water vapor is controlled by the weather regime. Among the many reasons we are in an ice age (although interglacial at the moment) is that Antarctica is cut off from Australia, India, etc and can hold lots of ice. Greenland has been moving north and gaining ice. The Isthmus of Panama is closed cutting off the Pacific from the Atlantic causing more cold currents, etc. The little bit of CO2 we do have causes welcome warming in this environment. There is little doubt that without CO2 the planet would be mostly dry and frozen.

What it all adds up to is that geography, greenhouse gases like CO2 and solar activity determine the weather regime; the prevailing pattern of highs and lows, average dips in the jet stream, average strength of storms and thus the average water vapor. NASA says CO2 is a major player in "climate change", but that is missing the point. It is misleading because the climate is not changing. The reason for that is that geography is not changing, the sun isn't changing (much), and thus the weather patterns which dictate climate are not changing.

The level of CO2 is a little low as pointed out in the 100 reasons link that you posted. Any rise is welcome at this point. The current level keeps us from becoming a planet of ice, but a change in the level doesn't do much. The level changed a lot as recently as 8000 years ago and there was no detectable temperature change.

There is still a possibility that the rise in CO2 is natural, nothing is certain in science. But there are no natural causes that explain the rise, not vegetation, not volcanoes and not ocean warming. None of those are strong enough, even combined, to explain anything close to the rise we have seen and see every year (2-3 ppm per year which would require a large percentage of deforestation and/or hundreds of large volcanoes (every year) and/or 0.2-0.3C of ocean warming per year to have happened centuries ago. There is no evidence for any of those things.

106 posted on 09/03/2015 3:04:44 PM PDT by palmer (Net "neutrality" = Obama turning the internet into FlixNet)
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To: palmer

[[The level of CO2 is a little low as pointed out in the 100 reasons link that you posted.]]

A ‘little low”?

[[The historical record indicates that CO2 levels have been significantly higher than they are now, being 25 times at 545 Ma, (million years ago) (Veizer. J. et al 2000).

The killer proof that CO2 does not drive climate is to be found during the Ordovician-

Silurian (450-420 Ma) and the Jurassic-Cretaceous periods (151-132 Ma), when CO2 levels were greater than 4000 ppmv (parts per million by volume) and about 2000
ppmv respectively4.

If the IPCC theory is correct there should have been runaway greenhouse induced global warming during these periods, but instead there was glaciation.

This unequivocally proves that CO2 does not drive climate, it can only be a minor player, swamped by other far more powerful influences.]]

http://www.lavoisier.com.au/articles/greenhouse-science/climate-change/mcclintock-proofnotco2-2009.pdf

[[There is still a possibility that the rise in CO2 is natural, nothing is certain in science. ]]

Considering that CO2 levels were able to reach 4000 ppm all by themselves I’d say yeah! There’s ‘a chance’.

[[NASA says CO2 is a major player in “climate change”, but that is missing the point. ]]

NASA IS LYING! CO2 rises ALWAYS follow rises In temperature- hundreds to thousands of years later-

There’s an old saying, one that NASA and ‘man-caused global warming’ LIARS ALL ignore

Correlation does not prove causation, but failure to correlate does disprove Causation- and so far not one single ‘man-caused global climate change’ advocate has been able to prove correlation- they simply make the claim and walk away from the discussion whenever evidence proves their correlation claims false

[[The level changed a lot as recently as 8000 years ago and there was no detectable temperature change.]]

The level has changed from 4000 ppm to 400 ppm, and life has survived fine and we haven’t frozen to death (which incidentally, had there been government sponsored ‘climatologists’ back then they would have been screaming about impending doom because the ppm was dropping rapidly, and claiming we were all going to freeze to death IF it ever got down to 400 ppm)

More from the pdf article:

[[This proves three things.

Firstly, CO2 did not, and could not, have caused the warmings.

Secondly, rising global temperatures were responsible for increasing levels of both CO2 and CH4 (Methane) and also Nitrous Oxide (N2O), not shown. The physics of how this might occur are well established and beyond dispute.

Thirdly, increased levels of CO2 did not inhibit in any way the subsequent fall in temperatures that regularly occurred, plunging the world into another ice age.]]

now onto more important issues- A Christian clerk was just sent ot prison for her beliefs... In AMERICA


108 posted on 09/03/2015 8:00:04 PM PDT by Bob434
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