Posted on 09/04/2015 9:57:10 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
We’re in a weird place as a party when Trump, the would-be strongman who’s going to smash sclerotic American government as we know it, is more of a “rule of law” guy than Ted Cruz is. And way, way more of one than Mike Huckabee is.
Trump prefers an accommodation in which gay couples can get their licenses, as the Obergefell ruling requires, and Davis can opt out so that she’s not involved in something that violates her religious beliefs. But she doesn’t want to opt out. She wants to force the whole office to opt out by forbidding her deputies from issuing licenses without her approval. As recently as yesterday, during her contempt hearing, her lawyers were warning people that marriage licenses issued today by her staff (there have already been two as of 10:30 a.m. ET) while she’s in jail won’t be valid because they lack her signature as county clerk — and she might not be wrong about that. What she’s doing, as Charles Cooke put it, isn’t so much seeking a conscientious objection for herself as demanding a right of secession for Rowan County from the post-Obergefell legal regime. Cruz and Huckabee seem okay with that. Trump evidently isn’t.
“The other simple answer is rather than going through this, [because] it’s really a very, very sticky situation, a terrible situation — 30 miles away they have other places, they have many other places where you get licensed, and you have them actually quite nearby,” Mr. Trump said. “That’s another alternative. I hate to see her being put in jail. I understand what they’re doing. It would be certainly nice if she didn’t do it, but other people in her office do it but from what I understand she won’t allow other people in her office to do it.”
Bottom line, host Joe Scarborough said, is that if Supreme Court makes a decision, that’s the law of land, right?
“You have to go with it,” Mr. Trump said. “The decision’s been made, and that is the law of the land.”…
“She can take a pass and let somebody else in the office do it in terms of religious, so you know, it’s a very … tough situation, but we are a nation, as I said yesterday, we’re a nation of laws,” he said. “And I was talking about borders and I was talking about other things, but you know, it applies to this, also, and the Supreme Court has ruled. It would be nice to have other people in her office do what they have to do.”
Smart point, but the Cruz/Huckabee take on this is that a “lawless” Supreme Court opinion doesn’t count as “law” the way a statute does. Cruz, at least, knows better, but it’s in his political interest to push that argument. I’m curious to see if he comes after Trump over this at one of the debates, sensing that it’s a rare chance for him to out-populist Mr. Populism. If he does, Trump should come back: Who gets to decide which court opinions are sufficiently “lawless” that they needn’t be enforced? We’re left with Trump, the alleged revolutionary, standing up for the long tradition of judicial review while more mainstream GOP pols argue that that tradition has been so discredited by left-wing double standards that conservatives should take the same a la carte approach to law enforcement. Let every county clerk go their own way. In hindsight, Obama should have cited his, ahem, deep religious convictions as grounds for granting executive amnesty.
Exit question via a Twitter buddy: How come no one’s standing up for the conscience rights of Davis’s deputy clerks? What if one of them enthusiastically supports gay marriage and wants to issue licenses in Davis’s stead? The state’s telling Davis that she has a duty to obey Supreme Court rulings and she’s telling her deputies that they have a duty to obey her personal religious beliefs. Why is the former less legitimate than the latter?
RE: Kim Davis just stopped the Trump express.
For those who don’t know, Kim Davis is an elected official of her county. Elected running as a DEMOCRAT.
“Did the legislature of Kentucky pass a law legalizing gay marriage? “
Did liberal states pass a law reversing their restrictive gun laws when SCOTUS slapped them down?
No?
Then I suppose they are still on the books then.
They’re not?
Then you answered your own question.
RE: Look I criticize Trump all the time, but he is right. The law is the law. The law sucks
You mean this law the Clerk was supposed to uphold?
Kentucky Revised Statute 402.020:
Other prohibited marriages (1)Marriage is prohibited and void (d)Between members of the same sex. This is the law. Still on the books. I don’t know which law Trump is talking about either. County clerks across the state are in violation of KRS 402.02(1)(d) when/if they issued marriage licenses to same sex couples.
So, what law is the law again?
Cruz would be in contention for POTUS right now, if Trump hadn’t injected himself into the race. Sadly capitalism is showing one of it’s few weaknesses here.
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Trump is on record being for traditional marriage and against gay rights. If Congress sends him a bill to fix this, I expect he would sign it.
But this is not an issue that is going to help Trump win the general election. It’s not going to help Cruz either.
“Have the states ever delegated to Congress, expressly via the Constitution, the specific power to make a law legalizing things like gay marriage? “
Did they do it with interracial marriage?
“I will say Cruz appears to grasp the dynamics of this woman’s resistance. “
He gets the Constitutional wrongs here.
Actually, liberal frauds are showing conservatism’s weakness. Allowing them access. If half the right wasn’t acting like Obama zombies, trumps money would matter as much as Jebs. Not at all.
You're right. Cruz doesn't want to export jobs either. He just wants to import workers. At any rate, Senator 7% isn't going to be the nominee, as much as FReepers wish it were so. Knock Trump out of the race, say "hello Jeb" (in Spanish, of course) and President Hillary.
fighting this issue can help save the country though, so it is worth fighting
Trump is on the wrong side.
“...isn’t the judge is in violation of Kentucky law...?
___
He’s trying to force her to break the law. Not sure which laws cover that coercion but I’m sure there are some out there.
Just because the Supreme Court rules something doesn’t make it the law. The courts can not make law.
I don’t yet know who I will support. But I can say most on this tread don’t understand the constitution. IT IS THE LAW OF THE LAND.
Do I like it? That is not the issue. We are a country of Laws not of men.
We are all being taken for a ship of fools.
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Speak for yourself, please.
There are many of us here on this forum that have never bought any of Trumps blusterings.
” If half the right wasn’t acting like Obama zombies,”
Then again, if half the right wasn’t acting like Obama zombies, we never would have allowed the GOPe cabal to finance McCain and Romney for POTUS.
Outside of 1 woman I don’t see anyone fighting this fight!
RE: He’s trying to force her to break the law.
PRECISELY. Kentucky law as it stands now PROHIBITS same-sex marriage.
This judge is the one who should be impeached.
So you did not see the state of Texas pass a law protecting the clerks who do this I guess.
You want save the country by handing the Presidency to the Democrats.
Trump isn’t on the wrong side. He said he was against gay rights and for traditional marriage. It’s a question of tactics. Which battles do you fight.
If Trump takes a stand on this hill now, he will lose the general election. If Cruz takes a stand on this hill now, well he never had a shot at the general election anyway.
This is one of those issues like Obamacare. Once it’s in place, it needs to stew a little bit so that the voters can realize that’s not what they wanted.
Ya know....there’s something that connects these seemingly random unrelated occurrences....BUT WHAT????
Yup Steve. It’s a mystery.
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