Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Surprise! The Soviets Nearly Won Afghan War
articles.latimes.com ^ | December 26, 2004 | Mark Kramer

Posted on 10/06/2015 6:59:21 AM PDT by Trumpinator

Surprise! The Soviets Nearly Won Afghan War

December 26, 2004|Mark Kramer | Mark Kramer is director of the Harvard Cold War studies program and a senior fellow at the university's Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian studies.

Twenty-five years ago, on Christmas Eve, Soviet troops marched into Afghanistan with the aim of restoring order in a few months. Nine years later they withdrew amid continued violence. In their wake, civil war erupted and the Taliban rose to power, providing a haven to Al Qaeda.

Critics of the U.S. military effort in Iraq often cite the Soviet experience in Afghanistan as evidence that using foreign troops to put down an insurgency is bound to fail. But that "lesson" is misleading because it depends on a depiction of the Soviet-Afghan war that is downright inaccurate.

When Soviet forces invaded Afghanistan, they initially failed to protect their logistical and communications lines. But Soviet commanders quickly corrected these mistakes and brought in better troops, including helicopter pilots trained for mountain warfare. From mid-1980 on, the Afghan guerrillas never seized any major Soviet facilities or prevented major troop deployments and movements.

When Soviet generals shifted, in mid-1983, to a counterinsurgency strategy of scorched-earth tactics and the use of heavily armed special operations forces, their progress against the guerrillas accelerated. Over the next few years, the Soviets increased their control of Afghanistan, inflicting many casualties -- guerrilla and civilian. Had it not been for the immense support -- weapons, training, materials -- provided to the Afghan guerrillas by the United States, Saudi Arabia, China and Pakistan, Soviet troops would have achieved outright victory.

Even with all the outside military assistance, Afghan guerrillas were often helpless when facing the Soviet military machine. Raids conducted by Soviet airborne and helicopter forces were especially effective.

(Excerpt) Read more at articles.latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; russoafghanwar; scorchedearth
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081 next last
To: Dr. Sivana

So you’re in favor of the mujaheddin? You support them. Even though they’ve slaughtered Americans the world over?


41 posted on 10/06/2015 7:43:11 AM PDT by csvset ( Illegitimi non carborundum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: duckln
Reagans' blunder. We should have butted out. Islamists were a bigger potential problem than The USSR.

Well, we cannot replay history, but the a whole lot of folks in Eastern Europe likely disagree with you.
42 posted on 10/06/2015 7:44:02 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Hostage

Syria does not have Afghanistan’s mountains


43 posted on 10/06/2015 7:44:26 AM PDT by Steven Tyler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Sivana

“Much as we don’t have much use for Islam, Godless Marxism is more expansionist and at least as crushing to the human spirit.”

That is true, but also not terribly relevant today. The more aggressive and more soul crushing ideology today is this disgusting transnational, ill defined, feel good suffocation of all distinct nations and cultures. This is a Western perversion (as was Marxism) and it is one our nation is vigorously promoting along with the EU and the UN.

The principal threat to humanity today is this amorphous transnational bureaucracy. This recent Islamic spew is in furtherance of those transnational objectives, which every American president since 1989 has promoted over our national interests.


44 posted on 10/06/2015 7:45:51 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Obamacons: The degenerate and venomous issue born of intimacies between Obama and neocons.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Sivana

The same Europeons that are being flooded with mujaheddin now. They’ll be thankful that the US created , funded and nourished them. Not only back then, but now, as evidenced by Obunga’s actions and inactions.


45 posted on 10/06/2015 7:47:10 AM PDT by csvset ( Illegitimi non carborundum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: csvset
So you’re in favor of the mujaheddin? You support them. Even though they’ve slaughtered Americans the world over?

The 1980s version were defending their own homeland. They wernt slaughtering Americans. I also support the 2000+_ version of the Japanese even though the 1940s version slaughtered Americans.

The Soviets had no business slaughtering a tenth of their population, purposely maiming their children (bombs disguised as toys), etc.

We had no business playing nation building in Afghanistan in 2002. (It turns out that Bin Laden wasn't even there!). We could have blown some stuff up to make a point, and do our search for the criinal from a secured base without having to take over the whole joint.

9/11 could have happened even if Afghanistan had remained Communist.
46 posted on 10/06/2015 7:48:45 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: csvset
Not only back then, but now, as evidenced by Obunga’s actions and inactions.,/i>

Reagan is not responsible for what happened in the Middle East under the policies of the Bushes, Clintons and Obamas, any more than Nixon is responsible for what happened in Red China under the Bushes, Clintons and Obamas.

47 posted on 10/06/2015 7:51:15 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Trumpinator; All

Hey they came in second! That’s pretty good, right?


48 posted on 10/06/2015 7:52:02 AM PDT by notdownwidems (Washington DC has become the enemy of free people everywhere)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Trumpinator

One thing being in Afghanistan did, was to stop the Russians from invading Poland in 1980, when Jaruzelski begged the Soviets to intervene to stop Solidarity, the Soviets told them they could not do it because of their war in Afghanistan.


49 posted on 10/06/2015 7:52:15 AM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

That’s an interesting theory. I will read up on it. I have read or heard in lectures that the main effect of the Soviet failure in Afghanistan was that the feared Red Army was not so feared after that.


50 posted on 10/06/2015 7:54:20 AM PDT by Trumpinator (You are all fired!!! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Trumpinator

Thanks, it looks like that old memory of 70,000 was killed or injured. Wiki shows all the people who got sick and the equipment they lost too.


51 posted on 10/06/2015 7:55:01 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Psalm 144
The principal threat to humanity today is this amorphous transnational bureaucracy. This recent Islamic spew is in furtherance of those transnational objectives, which every American president since 1989 has promoted over our national interests.

I don't disagree. That of course doesn't make Reagan's support of the Afghan resistance evil or imprudent.
52 posted on 10/06/2015 7:56:40 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: DungeonMaster
I think the native Afghans who fought on the Soviet side may make it to your figure. Maybe, the USSR figured they used up all their allies forces and would have to start using their own troops and that is when they retreated.

1,600 dead Soviet troops sounds like maybe half died from drunken accidents rather than fighting.

I know I read - but can't find source now - that most of the Soviet regular forces in Afghanistan were themselves from the 'Stans except for the special forces and officer corps and engineering battalions.

53 posted on 10/06/2015 7:57:55 AM PDT by Trumpinator (You are all fired!!! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Artemis Webb
Yes. And we got our ass kicked at Pearl Harbor. Does that mean the Japanese won WW2?

You and I both know that's a faulty comparison, and you ignored the cause-and-effect value of my statement. The primary reason the Soviets were thrown back in Afghanistan is the military assistance the mujahedin received from the U.S. and other western countries. Does that help now?

54 posted on 10/06/2015 8:02:25 AM PDT by ScottinVA (If you're not enraged...why?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Sivana
9/11 could have happened even if Afghanistan had remained Communist.

Possibly, but Afghanistan would've been a far less hospitable training environment without the Taliban in power.

55 posted on 10/06/2015 8:04:38 AM PDT by ScottinVA (If you're not enraged...why?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Trumpinator

They must have been getting ready to break out the horseshoes because the “almost” of the hand grenades just wasn’t cutting it.


56 posted on 10/06/2015 8:06:04 AM PDT by gnarledmaw (Hive minded liberals worship leaders, sovereign conservatives elect servants.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Sivana

I don’t think Reagan’s support of the Afghan resistance was evil or imprudent either, based on what was going on then. It was part of the overall siege operation against the Soviet Union, which was the most important issue of the day, Reagan’s main objective and the principal reason I had the pleasure of voting for him twice. I only have one serious complaint against Reagan, and that is that he did not have a worthy successor lined up.


57 posted on 10/06/2015 8:06:42 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Obamacons: The degenerate and venomous issue born of intimacies between Obama and neocons.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: Trumpinator

I is 20/20 hindsight, but we should have let them win.
We helped the Mujahadeen, they won, the Soviets left. We let Trascanistan ferment for a couple of decades under them, and Voila! 9/11.
I can’t wait for the bill from Iraq and Syria to come due in 20-30 years.


58 posted on 10/06/2015 8:06:48 AM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Trumpinator

“I know I read - but can’t find source now - that most of the Soviet regular forces in Afghanistan were themselves from the ‘Stans except for the special forces and officer corps and engineering battalions.”

Interesting. I did not know that. Did that have any bearing on subsequent events in Chechnya that you are aware of?


59 posted on 10/06/2015 8:10:01 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Obamacons: The degenerate and venomous issue born of intimacies between Obama and neocons.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Trumpinator

Then there is the whole issue of trusting anything any Russian says. They have their own Bagdad Bob network that really know their business.


60 posted on 10/06/2015 8:12:05 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson