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To: Cboldt; xzins
No, US citizenship was and is conferred by operation of the US constitution.

The Constitution is a statute. It is the highest law of the land. The Constitution did not define the term Natural Born Citizen, but clearly the framers did not intend that the children of slaves born in the United States would be considered as any kind of citizen at all.

Under "Natural Law" (referencing rights inherent by virtue of the creator) slaves would be considered Natural Born Citizens as they are endowed by their creator with whatever Natural Rights exist.

Citizenship has never been a Natural Right, it has always been conferred by the State under statutes or decrees.

Congress has the power and the authority to define whether or not Ted Cruz is a Natural Born Citizen and whether that is any different from a person who is born a citizen.

Congress will be given the opportunity when the electoral college declares Ted Cruz to be the elected president and congress is given the opportunity to certify the election.

Anyone want to take a bet that they would undo the presidential election based on this obscure phrase in the Constitution - the same Constitution that granted no rights - Natural or otherwise - to millions of slaves living in the United States at the time of it's passage?

36 posted on 01/12/2016 6:59:43 AM PST by P-Marlowe (Tagline pending.)
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To: P-Marlowe
-- The Constitution is a statute. --

That just confuses a discussion that aims to distinguish between the constitution, and acts of congress. Is the constitution an act of congress? Do I need to use "act of congress" rather than "statute" to make the statement "citizenship depends on a statute" into an unambiguous statement? I mean, how pedantic do you want to be? I'll comply with your dictate in that regard.

-- Citizenship has never been a Natural Right, it has always been conferred by the State under statutes or decrees. --

Right. The constitution does that for US citizenship. Article IV, Sec. 2; and 14th amendment.

-- Congress has the power and the authority to define whether or not Ted Cruz is a Natural Born Citizen --

Where in the constitution is that power conferred? As to citizenship, the only grant of authority I see, to Congress, is to make rule of naturalization.

-- Congress will be given the opportunity when the electoral college declares Ted Cruz to be the elected president and congress is given the opportunity to certify the election. --

Agreed.

-- Anyone want to take a bet that they would undo the presidential election based on this obscure phrase in the Constitution - the same Constitution that granted no rights - Natural or otherwise - to millions of slaves living in the United States at the time of it's passage? --

Nope. i expect Congress and the courts to violate the constitution, accompanied with a certain amount of handwaving.

44 posted on 01/12/2016 7:15:34 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: P-Marlowe; Cboldt

Under current law Cruz is considered a citizen at birth. They don’t use the term ‘natural born citizen’. However, without ever having said so in current law, it appears they mean that citizen at birth to be equal to natural born citizen. So be it. As you say, Congress is given the power to legislate these things.

I do think that a state can challenge Cruz’s status, and my gut tells me another candidate would also have standing to do so. They would have to do so BEFORE any election, because I agree with you that no one is going to try to overturn an election. I doubt the electoral college would go there, but the truth is that they are a group of delegations from each of our states anyway.

So ultimately this really does fall back on different states and it falls back on them right now before we get to November’s election. If ANY state would challenge it, I would expect it to be California. They are the largest with the most electoral college votes.


54 posted on 01/12/2016 7:38:42 AM PST by xzins (Have YOU Donated to the Freep-a-Thon? https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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