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To: Cold Heat

I don't believe it was made "intentionally ambiguous" at all. The Framers wrote the Constitution purposefully using the common language of the day. They wanted a government of the People, so they wrote the binding documents in the language the People could easily understand. And encouraged us to continue that legacy in all our legal doings.

The Constitution leaves no room for doubt upon this subject. The words "natural-born citizen of the United States" occur in it, and the other provision also occurs in it that "Congress shall have power to pass a uniform system of naturalization." To naturalize a person is to admit him to citizenship. Who are natural-born citizens but those born within the Republic? Those born within the Republic, whether black or white, are citizens by birth -- natural-born citizens. There is not such word as white in your Constitution. Citizenship, therefore, does not depend upon complexion any more than it depends upon the rights of election or of office. All from other lands, who, by the terms of your laws and a compliance with their provisions become naturalized, are adopted citizens of the United States; all other persons born within the Republic, of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty, are natural-born citizens. Gentlemen can find no exception to this statement touching natural-born citizens except what is said in the Constitution in relation to Indians. The reason why that exception was made in the Constitution is apparent to everybody. The several Indian tribes were recognized at the organization of this Government as independent sovereignties. They were treated with as such; and they have been dealt with by the Government ever since as separate sovereignties. Therefore, they were excluded from the general rule.

   Hon. John A. Bingham
   The Congressional Globe April 11th, 1862, page 1639

The emphasis is mine. The issue is as simple as John Bingham stated it was, without disagreement, seventy-nine years after the War for Independence was won. Children born in the Republic (jus soli) of parents (plural) owing allegiance to no other sovereignty (jus sanguinis) *are* in language of the Constitution the natural-born citizens. With the one exception provided of the American Indians, this definition of natural-born citizen was without contradiction in 1862 and prior, according to Bingham's most educated estimation. As the author of the 14th Amendment, issues of citizenship were his strong suit.

There is a modern interpretation that boils down to the Congress being able to redefine any word in the Constitution of its choosing without following the amendment process. I think that is a terrible precedent to set. If we permit redefining "natural born citizen" today, they'll redefine "shall not be infringed" tomorrow. They are already trying to redefine "militia" without using the amendment process. If we permit this to succeed, the unintended consequences will be disastrous.

All that being said, I do believe Cruz can be seated as POTUS as there is precedent in Chester Arthur and Barack Obama for doing just that. But he won't get the nod and have that opportunity if he does not stop disenfranchising the high-information conservative base. Right now his potentially most staunch supporters are shaking our collective heads wondering what kind of Constitutional authority can get this point so wrong. And then to use the "nothing to see here" strategy to ignore it is insulting to our intelligence.

Ted Cruz can win this election, but not, in my opinion, by following the course his campaign advisers have plotted for him. It worked for Obama because he is a black liberal democrat. They effectively used "racism" to quell the argument. Ted Cruz does not have that luxury. He needs to try a different tactic.

Embrace the conundrum and signal to the People that once seated as POTUS he will use the influence the Executive Branch of government to formally request clarity be provided by the Judicial Branch of government, whether it works in his favor or not. By showing conservatives that he is willing to face potential impeachment himself in order to protect the sanctity of the Constitution, he will show he is a genuine originalist, and encourage our trust and favor. That will go along with us conservative birthers; and I believe the bulk of us will happily stand down out of respect for the gesture and anticipated final resolution.


179 posted on 01/18/2016 9:33:40 PM PST by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: so_real
I don't think the 20th century interpretation is redefining anything, If anything it is akin to the 1790 thinking before the 1795 rewrite.

The primary issue from my perspective is not the term natural born. It's the empty headed idea that jurisdiction ends at the border or shore.

IMO, A citizen carries with him that jurisdiction in the form of allegiance and of responsibility to the country he/she considers sovereign and home.

If you think of jurisdiction in that way, then a natural born citizen who has a child entirely due to happenstance, in a foreign country, then upon return the child should be considered a natural born or of the same status as the Mother in this case. This was the view in 1790. It is the majority view today, I believe. There are other views and some use the same sources, like Vattel..

I think therefore, that the founders wanted it this way. they wanted some argument for each case, as the goal was a firewall to prevent people of foreign allegiances from abusing our laws and salting the mine with foreign influences when they matured.....

If you think about it critically, the foreign influences could occur in a domestically born child of a foreign national or naturalized citizen, just as easily as a foreign born of a American natural born, and in fact I might argue that the latter is actually less risky.

So I think the ambiguity is quite intentional and has been for 200 years.

183 posted on 01/18/2016 9:51:29 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: so_real
Ted Cruz can win this election, but not, in my opinion, by following the course his campaign advisers have plotted for him. It worked for Obama because he is a black liberal democrat. They effectively used "racism" to quell the argument. Ted Cruz does not have that luxury. He needs to try a different tactic.

Embrace the conundrum and signal to the People that once seated as POTUS he will use the influence the Executive Branch of government to formally request clarity be provided by the Judicial Branch of government, whether it works in his favor or not. By showing conservatives that he is willing to face potential impeachment himself in order to protect the sanctity of the Constitution, he will show he is a genuine originalist, and encourage our trust and favor. That will go along with us conservative birthers; and I believe the bulk of us will happily stand down out of respect for the gesture and anticipated final resolution.

Well written and I couldn't agree more. I could happily support Cruz if he would squarely face this issue by owning it and probing it immediately and completely (all the way to the SCOTUS if need be) in order to settle it once and for all for the good of the country. Of course, if he were to pursue this approach, it would be absolutely critical that he select a running mate of the highest caliber since they might well end up in his place in short order.

As it is now, he recent actions (such as questioning Trump's mother's birth in Scotland in the recent debate) suggest that he is disingenuously trying to "obama-ize" the issue away and that he is a man more interested in furthering his own political ambitions than in serving the country of his birth (well, perhaps not of his birth in his case, but you know what I mean).

The 1971 SCOTUS case of Rogers v. Bellei is a serious problem for Ted Cruz. Here is a snippet of the parts that may spell disaster for the Cruz campaign:

"Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization. A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized, either by treaty, as in the case of the annexation of foreign territory; or by authority of Congress, exercised either by declaring certain classes of persons to be citizens, as in the enactments conferring citizenship upon foreign-born children of citizens," (emphasis mine).

199 posted on 01/19/2016 5:29:02 AM PST by elengr (Benghazi betrayal: rescue denied - our guys DIED - treason's the reason obama s/b tried then fried!)
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