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To: Just mythoughts

“...The Framers of our Constitution applied Vattel’s concept...”

That someone is a citizen by birth is absolutely valid. That a “law” can also define what a certain circumstance of birth equates to is also just as valid. A mere three years after the founders wrote the NBC clause in the constitution, they used their constitutionally granted authority over citizenship and in the Naturalization Act of 1790 defined one particular circumstance of birth (Children of US citizen born outside the nation) as a certain type of citizen (are Natural Born Citizens). Why would the Founding Fathers/Framers of the Constitution do that *IF* (as so many Trump supporters claim) it was not what they believed? It flatly refutes the Trump supporter’s understanding of “Vattel” *AND* it also tends to refute the claim they wrote the constitution per Vattel. However, it does align nicely with British Common Law concepts which Taft (president and supreme court justice) noted is the legal style/foundation that the founders thought, argued and wrote in because it was most familiar to them.

Being NBC at birth to two US citizens on US soil is *absolutely* valid. However, that point also does not preclude citizenship *laws* being valid as well. The 1790 Act, regardless of being law and or later modified is also just as valid in determining the opinion of “the founding fathers who participated in the framing of the Constitution”. They *included* in the constitution that Congress had the authority to define citizenship by law. No amendment is needed as it’s been in there from the very start. Now *Legally* speaking, the only argument that matters is the citizenship law in place when Cruz was born - and that law is absolutely valid because the founders (who wrote the NBC clause) also wrote in the constitution that congress has the authority to legislate citizenship.

So *both* legal concepts are currently (and have been since the founding) valid — at least until a court of competent jurisdiction says different and/or congress acts to affirmatively resolve any related issue. Which would be yet another law, valid until changed by legislation and/or SCOTUS says different. Lather, rinse, repeat...

And regardless of any existing SCOTUS ruling made since that time, due to *judicial restraint* it can not be applied to a case resolving presidential qualifications until the same argument(s) are used successfully in a relevant case. And they may very well be successful in constraining the definition when they do - but they haven’t yet done so specifically for presidential qualifications.

Nowadays, even if you are born on US soil to two parents - there is legally binding paperwork involved which is defined by laws in order to get your birth certificate which you can later use to show your provenance. Good luck living “on the grid” without a birth certificate (ie - the Govt’s approval/acknowledgement of your birth) if you are born today.

And as I’ve said, bottom line: if Cruz would have been fine by the founders (and they did say in their own words in the legislative record that his circumstance of birth would have been fine as NBC), who am I to argue with them? And if Cruz did not present a threat to Trump, we probably would be debating issues instead of trying to find different ways to split the same “hair”.

Opinions may vary...

Best of luck with your candidate!


173 posted on 01/19/2016 6:06:53 AM PST by jaydee770
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To: jaydee770
I do not know who my candidate is. I have no clue who will end up on the Missouri primary ballot. Anything I have to say about Cruz is about his lack of meeting the “original intent” of the Constitutional requirements. No act of Congress or a Court can give anyone “natural born’ status.

I am not a lawyer, but I do not need to be to know what “natural born” under our Constitution means. I have decided to call it a birthright. Circumstances of birth. There is a claim out there that Cruz has the evangelists, so called ‘social conservatives’. Many of them will boldly claim they are no longer under even God's law. It does make sense they do not care if Cruz fits the “original intent” of the Constitutional requirement to hold the office of president.

I have yet to see/hear/read from Cruz on down with any measurable credibility that Cruz is ‘natural born’. All manner of obfuscation has been hurled to make Cruz appear to fit their personal idea of what constitutes conservative credentials...

The ultra liberals liberal Larry Tribe could care less about “original intent” and he may well defend Cruz in any eligibility case. Now would not that be fun. But what Tribe has reportedly said that I have read, was Cruz's claim to fame was “original intent” of the Constitution... Now it is evident that Cruz intends to exempt himself from original intent.

Why do I owe Cruz, something that no court or act of congress can give him? There is nothing conservative about flaunting the Constitution.

185 posted on 01/19/2016 9:51:20 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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