'Sister Wives' case: Will polygamy become legal in Utah?

MSN News ^ | Jan 22, 2016 | Max Lewontin

[Graybeard58]

It is not forbidden by Mosaic Law and there is no punishment for it under the written law

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Not to mention that Christians were freed from Mosaic law by Jesus’ fulfilment of the law and a new covenant.

Mormons have their own gods and covenants via Joseph Smith and until very recently denied that they were Christians.

[MrB]

Yeah, there is no arrangement of adults that can be disallowed now as a “marriage”.

[kearnyirish2]

No, that is the animal kingdom. If you don’t think so, look at “baboon infanticide” (also practiced by other animals): A new alpha male kills the young offspring of his predecessor because the females won’t mate while raising them. I’ve watched this on film, and it is terrifying; the mothers know it is coming, but when they let down their guard for a moment the new alpha male (who is really focused on the task at hand - he never lets down his guard) pounces immediately and kills the exposed child. One by one this goes on for a couple of days until they are all gone, and their mothers are in heat again for the new guy.

In all honesty, I think this plays a big role in why children raised outside of intact families have higher rates of all kinds of pathologies. Whether the new guy kills them or not, the tension is often there - there is a tug-of-war for the affections of the mother between the offspring and the non-biological “father” (and each resents the other). Nowadays this is by no means limited to the black urban experience; it has become “normalized” so as to be found everywhere.

[ThePatriotsFlag]

I don’t get it, queers can marry in a church and there is a moral problem with polygamy? Liberals are wired up wrong.

[Vendome]

It will be legal.

Why you would want more than 1/2 a woman is beyond me

[Psalm 144]

You obviously have me confused with someone who cares about a freak cult.

[Psalm 144]

Yeah, there is no arrangement of adults that can be disallowed now as a “marriage”.

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Only most homicides, but that is about it.

[Zakeet]

For behold, I reveal unto you a new and everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory - Doctrine & Covenants Section 132

Joseph Smith may have commanded it, and Joseph may have practiced it with 33 plural wives in addition to Emma (See LDS Historian Todd Compton's In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith) but your assertion that God did not specifically disapprove of polygamy could not be more incorrect. Consider the following:

• Exodus 20:14 - Thou shalt not commit adultery

  Note: Scripture defines adultery as a married man having sexual relations with anyone other than his wife or a married woman having sexual relations with anyone other than her husband (see Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18, 1 Corinthians 6:15-16, and 1 Corinthians 7:2 among others) There are many verses condemning this terrible practice, enough for a detailed study in its own right.

• Exodus 20:17 - Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife

• Deuteronomy 17:17 - Neither shall he multiply wives to himself

• Proverbs 6:32 - [But] whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he [that] doeth it destroyeth his own soul.

• Matt. 5:31-32 - Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce. But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.'

• Mark 10:6-8 - But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female.' 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 'and the two shall become one flesh'; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.

  Note: The two as one is the pattern on how marriage was to be conducted from the start ... NOT more than two as one.

• Romans 13:9 - Thou shalt not commit adultery

• 1 Corinthians 6:9 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

• 1 Corinthians 7:2 - Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

• 1 Timothy 3:12 - Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

• 1 Timothy 3:2 - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach

• Hebrews 13:3-4 - Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Additionally, you should note the following:

• God never commanded polygamy or divorce. Scripture says that He only permitted it because of the hardness of their hearts (Deut. 24:1; Matt. 19:8).

• Abraham, David and Solomon were not blessed for practicing polygamy. In fact, every polygamist in the Bible was punished. This indicates that this practice is not God's will.

• God never condoned polygamy but like divorce he allowed it to occur and did not bring an immediate punishment for this disobedience.

Bottom line: What Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, every other LDS President from 1830-1945, and thousands of Mormon patriarchs did was terribly wrong and their actions do not change the fact the Bible condemns it.

[metmom]

A man and a woman come together to make ONE flesh.

You can’t be ONE flesh with multiple women at a time. That breaks the one flesh bond.

[Elsie]

A family made famous by the reality show "Sister Wives" is calling on a Utah appeals court to uphold a ruling that essentially decriminalized polygamy, saying the state's historic ban on the practice raises constitutional issues about freedom of religion, association, and privacy rights of consenting adults.

Then they should whine to GOD!!

Doesn't EVERYone know that the Living Prophet® will do NOTHING but what GOD tells him (sorry, girls) to do?

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    OFFICIAL DECLARATION - 1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

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President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

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EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.

(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

 

 

 

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.

 

(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

 

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What kind of  'Leadership' is THIS???

 

compared to...

 

 

 

 

Hebrews 11:35-40
 35.  Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
 36.  Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
 37.  They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
 38.  the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 
 

 

or compared to...

 

Acts 4:19.  But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.

 

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So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!

 

Well; it DID last about 47 years!

 

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Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...

I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

 

[Elsie]

[Elsie]

We would NOT be having this conversation if we'd just elected MITT!

[Elsie]

- King David was called a man after God's own heart and he had 8 wives

- King David was called a man after God's own heart and he committed adultery and had his lover's husband killed.

King Solomon asked for and was granted wisdom and he had wives in the hundreds

Wisdom is one thing.

Applying it is another...

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Deuteronomy 17:16-17
The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the LORD has told you, "You are not to go back that way again."

And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away, nor shall he acquire for himself excessive silver and gold.

 

1 Kings 11:1-3
But King Solomon loved many foreign women, as well as the daughter of Pharaoh: women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians, and Hittites; from the nations of whom the Lord had said to the children of Israel, "You shall not intermarry with them, nor they with you. Surely they will turn away your hearts after their gods." Solomon clung to these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.

 

OOps....

[Elsie]

Its Biblical (Solomon had 500 wives)

Only in the Reader's Digest version...

[Elsie]

My assertion is that there is far more support in the Bible FOR polygamy than there is for homosexuality which was a sin that called for stoning as punishment.

There is NO 'support' for polygamy in the Bible.

The bible merely RECORDS the fact that it occurred.

[Elsie]

It is not forbidden by Mosaic Law and there is no punishment for it under the written law.

1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient:

[bert]

all one has to do is not get married. One man living with three women and not married is perfectly legal.

[Elsie]

Not to mention that Christians were freed from Mosaic law by Jesus’ fulfilment of the law and a new covenant.

Only JEWISH Christians.

The law ONLY applied to the Chosen People.

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Romans 2:12-14

 

¹² All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. ¹³ For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. ¹⁴ (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.

[Elsie]

For those of you unfamiliar with a lot of Mormonism's terminology; it has re-defined GENTILE to mean non-Mormon.

[Elsie]

What we have in THIS country is CowbirdISM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowbird

Some baboons in Washington felt sorry for them (not having their own nests and all) and decided that “for the chilrun” we should subsidize every egg that gets laid, no matter at what cost to our OWN eggs.