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To: DiogenesLamp
You and I have different ideas about what this incident represents.

Your idea is a lot narrower. You haven't addressed the points about what this case would mean for the rights of people abroad, the competitiveness of American technology, or even the very basics of international trade. If the EU has profound enough doubts about the security of data in the US, it could make money transfers between the continents a lot more complicated.

Under our legal system since 1788, bank records, phone records, houses and persons could be searched so long as a warrant was obtained.

Chinese and Iranian laws on the subject go back a lot farther than that. How would you suggest that a global company pick and choose which local courts it obeys unquestioningly?

Apple wants immunity from ordinary law.

Recourse to the appellate courts is part of the ordinary law.

This is like a Bank that refuses to open safety deposit boxes in response to a search warrant.

Except in this case the warrant demands that the bank create a master key that can open any safety deposit box, a key the bank does not possess and that has never existed before.

Apple has done everything it can to stir up fear of government ran amok, willy nilly stealing everyone's personal data.

The government has done a damn fine job of that without Apple's help.

I can only think they are doing this in an effort to build political pressure to allow them to refuse to comply with US Law.

Trying to bring political pressure to bear on a political issue is somehow suspect now?

I think their efforts are misguided. I think they are doing this solely for marketing reasons and profit.

Profit is suspect now? It is certainly true that building the most secure devices available is good for business, and that if the fedgov takes that away from them, it would hurt their competitive position against their competitors, almost all of them foreign companies outside the reach of such an order. That alone would be a sufficient reason for them to oppose the government's demands to the fullest extent the law allows. The fact that they are right is a bonus.

65 posted on 02/23/2016 6:09:39 PM PST by ReignOfError
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To: ReignOfError
Your idea is a lot narrower. You haven't addressed the points about what this case would mean for the rights of people abroad, the competitiveness of American technology, or even the very basics of international trade. If the EU has profound enough doubts about the security of data in the US, it could make money transfers between the continents a lot more complicated.

Issues of American law are not decided on the basis of "Competitiveness of American Technology, or "the very basics of international trade." As for the rights of people abroad, they are no more in jeopardy than are the rights of people here in the U.S.

I didn't address these points because they have no bearing on the primary legal points regarding this case.

Chinese and Iranian laws on the subject go back a lot farther than that. How would you suggest that a global company pick and choose which local courts it obeys unquestioningly?

Irrelevant.

Recourse to the appellate courts is part of the ordinary law.

I will be surprised if they win there either.

Except in this case the warrant demands that the bank create a master key that can open any safety deposit box, a key the bank does not possess and that has never existed before.

No it doesn't. This is the constantly repeated lie that Apple inc started. It's Bullsh*t. You've been fooled into swallowing it, and I am tired of pointing out to people how it is bullsh*t. Did you read the court order?

The government has done a damn fine job of that without Apple's help.

This is what is known as a "tu quoque" fallacy. Just because the government has done something irresponsible does not excuse Apple inc from also doing something irresponsible.

Trying to bring political pressure to bear on a political issue is somehow suspect now?

Please state the case accurately. It is not a political issue, it is a legal issue. Apple is trying to bring political pressure to bear to win a legal issue. Apple is trying to make it a political issue when it isn't.

Profit is suspect now?

When it conflicts with law, it always was. What is theft except profit in conflict with law?

The fact that they are right is a bonus.

Apple is not right. They are deliberately defying a court order and then engaging in misleading political fear-mongering in an effort to continue defying this legal order. You have been duped.

69 posted on 02/24/2016 7:02:56 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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