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To: A Formerly Proud Canadian

Rumor in 1965 was the grids weren’t interconnected. When the New York blackout hit there was trouble finding a plant to use as a ‘match’ to start other plants. (takes electricity to start turbines?) Apparently some old coal plant was used in upstate New York. I’ve often wondered if that story was true. And are grids all interconnected today?


54 posted on 03/22/2016 8:00:58 PM PDT by GOPJ (Why isn't the press DEMANDING Hillary and Bernie denounce the violence of their thugs?)
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To: GOPJ

In ‘65, that blackout affected ON and a number of States in addition to NYS, due to the interconnected NPCC ‘grid’. In the fifty years since, much has been learned from major blackouts including the putting in place of processes to ensure safe and efficient ‘black starts’. I recall viewing a PBS documentary on the blackout but don’t recall many details.

In the case of a large plant like the 2 GW plant I worked at, such a plant will need 5, 10, 15 or more MW, just to operate the control and instrument system, so that it can start producing power. If a grid went completely down, it would have to be ‘black started’, often with multiple plants running, which would then be synchronized before energizing additional plants to slowly bring the grid on line.

The first issue is, how to get power to energize the control system of the big plants. Depending on the circumstances, hydro plants, or even large turbo-generators (aka jet engines attached to large electrical generators) are used. The power produced is then dedicated to energizing the control system of the bigger plant. Bear in mind, if the turbo-generator uses NG, as most do, it is likely useless, as there is likely no power to run the NG pipeline compressors without which, there is no pressure to feed the turbo-generator with NG! A diesel, or even kerosene powered turbo-generator could work. Hydro plants most often are used for the initial part of a ‘black start’.

Starting a ‘black’ grid is like starting a campfire. You light paper (the turbo-generator), which eventually ignites the tinder (energizes the control system on the large unit), which then lights the kindling (ie: energizes the big plant which is then producing electricity), which then lights the fuel logs (synchronizing to the transmission system and adding additional units to the grid). It would not be a quick process to ‘black start’ an entire transmission system!

While AB and BC are connected to the WECC grid, each Provincial grid can be isolated from each other and from the tielines into MT and WA, so each Provincial grid can operate independently. AB is also ‘tied’ via an unsynchronized DC line into SK for emergencies. SK and MB are part of the Midwest system (MRO). I would presume that there are similar set ups below the 49th parallel.

Because of the size of the two grids (WECC and MRO) and the distances that current has to flow, they cannot be synchronized. There are additional ‘grids’ in N. America and, as noted above, because of the size of the areas and distances current must flow, they cannot be synchronized, except within their own ‘grid’. I would also suspect DC interties between the various ‘grids’.

There has never been a situation where the entire N. American power system went ‘black’, thank God! Theoretically, an EMP could do that. IF there were enough ‘shielded’ transmission lines and plants, the whole N. American power system could theoretically be started from one hydro plant. It would require one ‘grid’ to be fully energized and then the DC intertie to the next ‘grid’ used, along with an inverter, to start the process in the next ‘grid’. The process would then repeat into each ‘grid’. Even assuming the system sustained no permanent damage, it would take weeks to restore power to the whole continent. Western Europe would take much less time, as there is only one ‘grid’ in Western Continental Europe. GB is its own ‘grid’.


62 posted on 03/22/2016 9:54:23 PM PDT by A Formerly Proud Canadian (I once was blind but now I see...)
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